Working on a list of dinosaur remains, fragmentary - complete, need feedback

[Faelrin]

As the title says I've been busy working on a list of most dinosaurs (anything that probably isn't nomina dubia, or is as of yet undescribed and unnamed, to the best of my knowledge), hunting down information on as many described specimens as I can (preferably from peer reviewed sources containing descriptions of the material, though I am however currently limited to what is online only for the meantime). I've mentioned this in a few threads prior as well. The list for the forum will likely be simplified (mainly due to the character limit, but I will try to provide a more in depth list, as well as a list of references used, on google docs or something as well once finished, for those interested in that).

Ideally I'd like to separate things by very fragmentary (scraps of bone, tooth taxa, single bone, such as Stokesosaurus, etc), to fragmentary (such as Dryptosaurus, Moros, etc), fragmentary with (partial) skull (Daemonosaurus, Proceratosaurus, etc), partial or near complete remains without skull (Barosaurus, etc), partial remains with (partial) skull (Asfaltovenator, Teratophoneus, etc, or those described from mostly complete juvenile specimens only, such as Juravenator, Sciurumimus, etc), and of course those with mostly complete specimens (Tyrannosaurus, Allosaurus, etc).

In any case the feedback I'd like to gather is how to go about formatting such a huge list. Would folks prefer sorting by text categories, by colorations, or a mix of both? Additionally I'm also providing info on the year it was described, the time period, the primary formation, current country of origin, and important specimens (such as holotype, etc). Would folks be interested in the period's stage information as well (this is in regards to the less detailed forum version, as the more complete document will have that)?

Using the list of species in "Subfamily: Tyrannosaurinae" that I have mostly finished working on researching (though if you spot any issues now, please feel free to point them out so I can get them corrected), here are two formatting examples. Again please let me know which would be preferable?

Example A) Sorted by Text Categories:

Spoiler

Very Fragmentary:

Family: Tyrannosauridae:
Subfamily: Tyrannosaurinae:
Daspletosaurus/Thanatotheristes degrootorum? (2020, Late Cretaceous, Foremost Formation, Canada; holotype TMP 2010.5.7; specimen TMP 2018.016.0001)
Nanuqsaurus hoglundi (2014, Late Cretaceous, Prince Creek Formation, USA; holotype DMNH 21461; other undescribed material?)

Fragmentary:

Family: Tyrannosauridae:
Subfamily: Tyrannosaurinae:
Dynamoterror dynastes (2018, Late Cretaceous, Menefee Formation, USA; holotype UMNH VP 28348, other undescribed material?)

Fragmentary with (partial) Skull:

Family: Tyrannosauridae:
Subfamily: Tyrannosaurinae:
Alioramus remotus (1974, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; holotype PIN 3141/1, juvenile)
Daspletosaurus horneri (2017, Late Cretaceous, Two Medicine Formation, USA/Canada; holotype MOR 590; paratype MOR 1130; paratype MOR 553S/7.19.0.97, juvenile)
Lythronax argestes (2013, Late Cretaceous, Wahweap Formation, USA; holotype UMNH VP 20200)
Qianzhousaurus sinensis (2014, Late Cretaceous, Nanxiong Formation, China; holotype GM F10004)

Partial without Skull:
n/a atm

Partial with (partial) Skull:

Family: Tyrannosauridae:
Subfamily: Tyrannosaurinae:
Alioramus altai (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; holotype 100/1844, juvenile)
Daspletosaurus torosus (1970, Late Cretaceous, Oldman Formation, Canada; holotype CMN 8506; other specimens?)
Raptorex kriegsteini? (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation? Mongolia?; holotype LH PV18, juvenile)
Teratophoneus curriei (2011, Late Cretaceous, Kaiparowits Formation, USA; holotype BYU 8120/9396, BYU 8120/9397, BYU 826/9402, BYU 9398, BYU 13719; specimen UMNH VP 16690, subadult; specimen UMNH VP 16691; undescribed? specimen "Hollywood/Boris"; other specimens?)

Mostly Complete:
n/a atm

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Example B) Sorted by Colorations:

Spoiler

Very Fragmentary is Red, Fragmentary is Orange, Fragmentary with (partial) Skull is Green, Partial without Skull is Teal, Partial with (partial) Skull is Blue, and Mostly Complete is Purple (though worth mentioning this method is not entirely friendly towards colorblind people).

Family: Tyrannosauridae:
Subfamily: Tyrannosaurinae:

Alioramus remotus(1974, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; holotype PIN 3141/1, juvenile)
Alioramus altai (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; holotype 100/1844, juvenile)
Daspletosaurus torosus (1970, Late Cretaceous, Oldman Formation, Canada; holotype CMN 8506; other specimens?)
Daspletosaurus horneri (2017, Late Cretaceous, Two Medicine Formation, USA/Canada; holotype MOR 590; paratype MOR 1130; paratype MOR 553S/7.19.0.97, juvenile)
Daspletosaurus/Thanatotheristes degrootorum? (2020, Late Cretaceous, Foremost Formation, Canada; holotype TMP 2010.5.7; specimen TMP 2018.016.0001)
Dynamoterror dynastes (2018, Late Cretaceous, Menefee Formation, USA; holotype UMNH VP 28348, other undescribed material?)
Lythronax argestes (2013, Late Cretaceous, Wahweap Formation, USA; holotype UMNH VP 20200)
Nanuqsaurus hoglundi (2014, Late Cretaceous, Prince Creek Formation, USA; holotype DMNH 21461; other undescribed material?)
Qianzhousaurus sinensis (2014, Late Cretaceous, Nanxiong Formation, China; holotype GM F10004)
Raptorex kriegsteini? (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation? Mongolia?; holotype LH PV18, juvenile)
Teratophoneus curriei (2011, Late Cretaceous, Kaiparowits Formation, USA; holotype BYU 8120/9396, BYU 8120/9397, BYU 826/9402, BYU 9398, BYU 13719; specimen UMNH VP 16690, subadult; specimen UMNH VP 16691; undescribed? specimen "Hollywood/Boris"; other specimens?)

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Edit: Tagging @Sim and D @Dinoguy2 as I believe you've both expressed interest in this project when I mentioned it. Hopefully I'm not forgetting anyone. I think I mentioned this to @Halichoeres as well. Can't remember, sorry.

Edit 2: And while not mentioned in the above, I do plan to add information on which specimens have been found preserved with integument of sorts, and a little info on that.

I think in instances of those that may be junior synonyms I'll be sure to try to keep information on that available. A good example is Herrerasaurus that has had numerous junior synonyms, as many of its remains were initially described as other animals, but please let me know if that would be adding too much information to the above at this point.

[Sim]

I think people only get a notification they were mentioned if it's done in the original post, so not if it's done in a modification of the original post.  I didn't get a notification so that must be why.  So I'll tag the people you said were interested in this project D @Dinoguy2, @Halichoeres and @Stegotyranno420.

I'm not sure which format I prefer so I'll give it another day at least before voting.  I will say though that I wouldn't include clades such as Tyrannosaurinae, there's too many like it and they aren't major enough in my opinion.  Also, in the text based separation I wouldn't list a clade more than once, and I wouldn't list a category if it doesn't include anything, this would make it simpler and easier to read.  I would also order the categories from most complete to least, since I think people would tend to be more interested in the more complete species.  I'd put the clade name first and then the category.  Finally I think it might be better to not list the specimens and maybe instead just have a brief summary of the known remains.  If junior synonyms are generally accepted / not controversial I wouldn't make a note of them, I think it's not necessary and this would make things simpler again.

For the forum version I don't think the period stage should be included, "Late Cretaceous" or "Late Jurassic" should be enough.

I hope I didn't come across as overbearing!

[Faelrin]

@Sim Thanks for the heads up on that (regarding the tagging system). I wasn't aware that was case. I've done that quite a few times before, oops.

Thank you for the additional feedback as well.

So would something like this be more sufficient you think (using just the species from above), with or without the coloration?

Spoiler

Family: Tyrannosauridae:
Partial with (partial) Skull:
Alioramus altai (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; juvenile, 1 specimen, has skull and jaw, some vertebrae from neck to tail, parts of the pelvis, hindlimbs, feet)
Daspletosaurus torosus (1970, Late Cretaceous, Oldman Formation, Canada; adult, multiple specimens? has skull and jaw, most vertebrae from neck to tail, most ribs, parts of the shoulder, forelimb, hand, pelvis)
Raptorex kriegsteini? (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation? Mongolia?; juvenile, 1 specimen, has skull and jaw, most vertebrae from neck to the tail, most ribs, some gastralia, parts of the shoulder, forelimb, hand, pelvis, hindlimbs, feet)
Teratophoneus curriei (2011, Late Cretaceous, Kaiparowits Formation, USA; adult - subadult, 5+ specimens? collectively has parts of the skull and jaw, most vertebrae from neck to tail, most ribs, parts of the shoulder, forelimb, pelvis, hindlimb, foot)

Fragmentary with (partial) Skull:
Alioramus remotus(1974, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; juvenile, 1 specimen, partial skull and jaw, some neck vertebrae, parts of the hindlimb, foot)
Daspletosaurus horneri (2017, Late Cretaceous, Two Medicine Formation, USA/Canada; adult - juvenile, 3 specimens, collectively has skull and jaw, some vertebrae from neck to tail, parts of the forelimb, pelvis, hindlimb, foot)
Lythronax argestes (2013, Late Cretaceous, Wahweap Formation, USA; adult, 1 specimen, parts of the skull and jaw, parts of the pelvis, hindlimb, foot)
Qianzhousaurus sinensis (2014, Late Cretaceous, Nanxiong Formation, China; adult, 1 specimen, has skull and partial jaw, some vertebrae from neck to tail, parts of the shoulders, pelvis, hindlimb, foot)

Fragmentary:
Dynamoterror dynastes (2018, Late Cretaceous, Menefee Formation, USA; adult, multiple specimens? parts of the skull and jaw, shoulder, hindlimb)

Very Fragmentary:
Daspletosaurus/Thanatotheristes degrootorum? (2020, Late Cretaceous, Foremost Formation, Canada; adult, 2 specimens, parts of the skull and jaw)
Nanuqsaurus hoglundi (2014, Late Cretaceous, Prince Creek Formation, USA; adult, 1 specimen, parts of the skull, jaw, and other undescribed material?)

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[Dinoguy2]

A list like this would certainly be very useful, but will take a LOT of work. I wonder if, in the mean time, it might be worth starting by simply making a list of species known from more or less complete specimens. It would be a much shorter list, but personally that's the list I would mainly be using to see which dinosaurs really deserve to have figures made of them.

I would be very curious to see what percentage of dinosaurs known from really good, complete remains have actually been done as figures.

[Faelrin]

D @Dinoguy2 Indeed. Thankfully I've been working on this (on and off) for a few months now. I actually have quite a bit done already, such as with Ornithischia (nearly everything but Thyreophora and Marginocephalia at this point, and the rest of Hadrosauridae). However I'm redoing my work on Theropoda and early saurischians (have most of Saurophodomorpha that I haven't touched yet as well), which will delay those, but I think as I finish families I can add them. I'll probably get what I have for Ornithischia added after I get the rest of Hadrosauridae done, and add the others as I get them done (such as the whole of Stegosauria for example).

Honestly that's also one of the main reasons I've been working on this list. Going forward with my limited space, I want to avoid anything that's too fragmentary. It's also a great way for me to learn as much as I can about genera I've neglected to learn about for so long.

[Sim]

So would something like this be more sufficient you think (using just the species from above), with or without the coloration?

Spoiler

Family: Tyrannosauridae:
Partial with (partial) Skull:
Alioramus altai (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; juvenile, 1 specimen, has skull and jaw, some vertebrae from neck to tail, parts of the pelvis, hindlimbs, feet)
Daspletosaurus torosus (1970, Late Cretaceous, Oldman Formation, Canada; adult, multiple specimens? has skull and jaw, most vertebrae from neck to tail, most ribs, parts of the shoulder, forelimb, hand, pelvis)
Raptorex kriegsteini? (2009, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation? Mongolia?; juvenile, 1 specimen, has skull and jaw, most vertebrae from neck to the tail, most ribs, some gastralia, parts of the shoulder, forelimb, hand, pelvis, hindlimbs, feet)
Teratophoneus curriei (2011, Late Cretaceous, Kaiparowits Formation, USA; adult - subadult, 5+ specimens? collectively has parts of the skull and jaw, most vertebrae from neck to tail, most ribs, parts of the shoulder, forelimb, pelvis, hindlimb, foot)

Fragmentary with (partial) Skull:
Alioramus remotus(1974, Late Cretaceous, Nemegt Formation, Mongolia; juvenile, 1 specimen, partial skull and jaw, some neck vertebrae, parts of the hindlimb, foot)
Daspletosaurus horneri (2017, Late Cretaceous, Two Medicine Formation, USA/Canada; adult - juvenile, 3 specimens, collectively has skull and jaw, some vertebrae from neck to tail, parts of the forelimb, pelvis, hindlimb, foot)
Lythronax argestes (2013, Late Cretaceous, Wahweap Formation, USA; adult, 1 specimen, parts of the skull and jaw, parts of the pelvis, hindlimb, foot)
Qianzhousaurus sinensis (2014, Late Cretaceous, Nanxiong Formation, China; adult, 1 specimen, has skull and partial jaw, some vertebrae from neck to tail, parts of the shoulders, pelvis, hindlimb, foot)

Fragmentary:
Dynamoterror dynastes (2018, Late Cretaceous, Menefee Formation, USA; adult, multiple specimens? parts of the skull and jaw, shoulder, hindlimb)

Very Fragmentary:
Daspletosaurus/Thanatotheristes degrootorum? (2020, Late Cretaceous, Foremost Formation, Canada; adult, 2 specimens, parts of the skull and jaw)
Nanuqsaurus hoglundi (2014, Late Cretaceous, Prince Creek Formation, USA; adult, 1 specimen, parts of the skull, jaw, and other undescribed material?)

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@Faelrin, yes, that looks good!  I like the use of colour as it makes it easy to find a species and to get to the section one wants.  Please do add families as you finish them.  I look forward to seeing them.

Daspletosaurus torosus also has the upper leg known according to the Theropod Database, you might have missed it because if I'm remembering right this bone was destroyed as it was thought it wasn't worth keeping!

I would be very curious to see what percentage of dinosaurs known from really good, complete remains have actually been done as figures.

D @Dinoguy2, imagine when we see that for pterosaurs

[Faelrin]

@Sim Thanks. Good to know you find that satisfactory. Looking at it, I think it also looks much better then the previous options.
Also thanks for pointing that out about D. torosus. I added it into my wordpad document.

Pterosauria is next on my to-do list, and same goes for marine reptiles (aka plesiosaurs, ichthyosaurs, and mosasaurs), but not until I get finished with the dinosaurs first.

[Sim]

@Faelrin, I'm happy to see you'll do dinosaurs, pterosaurs and marine reptiles.  I'm interested in all those groups.

[Halichoeres]

I think the color-coding works well. If it proves difficult for color-blind people, they can look at the code instead. I think I mentioned this before, but if your library has a copy of Weishampel et al.'s The Dinosauria, or Greg Paul's field guide, both of those contain information on known material for genera published up to the time they went to print. Paul's taxonomy is idiosyncratic but in most cases it will be clear what specimens are being referenced.

[Gothmog the Baryonyx]

I would like to keep an eye on this, would also be interested. Wondering about how well known Kileskus is as well. It was the first non-Tyrannosaurid Tyrannosauroid I heard of and I don't think I know much about it.

[Faelrin]

@Halichoeres You did indeed mention those earlier on, but I don't have access to a library at the moment. I have not forgotten about them though, as I have them bookmarked, and hopefully can get my hands on my own copy of those some day, unless I can get the chance to go hunting for them at a local library instead. I suppose I can keep an eye on the used book store near me and see if any copies of those pop up there. It's how I found one of those childhood favorite Paleozoic fauna books a few years ago anyways. Thanks for the feedback as well. 

As I must rely on online sources for the meantime, thankfully I've been having success for the most part, by either throwing the names of the papers (such as those listed as references on wikipedia or theropod database, etc) in a search engine, or pulling up papers through google scholar (usually by typing in the genus and species name). Some older materials have been retained on either through google books or archive.org which helps immensely. When necessary I also check out supplemental materials when provided for papers (as I was revisiting the material for Eodromaeus today). This method also helps in finding alternative journals, pdfs, or whatever for some paywalled papers (though not always as can be see with one of the below examples).


@Gothmog the Baryonyx Kileskus has fragmentary remains unfortunately. Only has some parts of the skull, hand, and foot.

Based on the abstract of this paywalled 2019 paper only a few additional bones have been discovered or described, in addition to the material described, in the original paper published in 2010, that was mentioned above.

[Sim]

Hi @Faelrin, how is the list going?  I'm looking forward to seeing groups you've completed.  Also, I've been looking into long-tailed pterosaurs again and it got me thinking how interesting it will be when you do pterosaurs.

[Faelrin]

@Sim Sorry, I'm actually taking a little bit of a break from it right now. Kind of um, enjoying my new laptop and spending time playing JWE mostly, and planning on doing the same with JWE2 once that comes out soon (if I can hopefully afford it by then). Maybe I got myself a little burned out too. Might get back to it next week though, as it will still be about another week and a half before JWE2 comes out, and I'm finishing up with what I wanted to do in JWE. Think I want to get finished with Tyrannosauroidea and then move on to redoing my previous work/research of Stegosauria next with my new method of using google scholar, etc, to find papers describing the specimens material (when possible anyways). I guess I'll get the thread started after those are done, and add them in groups going from there (such as Spinosauridae, Ceratopsia, etc). I guess doing it this way would be more enjoyable too, instead of the way I was previously doing it.

Honestly with JWE2 featuring pterosaurs and marine reptiles, it has certainly got me interested in doing some digging on them (even though I was planning to anyways), to know which I'd like to see featured in future DLC or use if added since I like to try to make parks or enclosures featuring on specific formations (in Sandbox mode anyways). Rhamphorhynchus in particular intrigues me and is one I really want to see added. One of the few pterosaurs I knew the name of as a kid, even if I couldn't really spell it or pronounce it (though that holds true even now sadly, lol).


Edit: I should have also mentioned I've had some bad brain fog as of late too. Wanted to get some done today in (stegosauria) but there's just no way when I'm feeling this way and everything is harder to process, remember, etc.