Lost World Dinosaurs? Your Take? How are you?

[Loon]

There's a lot of stuff going through my mind right now, a lot of really stupid stuff. Here's one of them...

I've been thinking about King Kong and his various forms lately, particularly the versions where he's a guy in a suit, and well, it got me wondering about the idea of a "lost world" full of dinosaurs. One thing that's always bugged me about lost world media is that the dinosaurs are usually specific species we know about from the fossil record, albeit through a pop culture lense. Realistically, these animals should look very different from their fossil counterparts, right? 66 million years is going to result in a lot of adaptations. But, at that point, would they even resemble what people expect from dinosaurs enough for anyone to care? Artistically and scientifically, I find the speculative evolution angle very appealing, but still like the idea of seeing familiar species depicted. Maybe a compromise can be found...

I don't know, but what do you all think?

[BlueKrono]

@Loon That's one thing I loved about the 2005 film. The dinosaurs had evolved over the tens of millions of years, and while you could often determine ancestry, all were distinct new species. The Vastosaurus rex is a prime example of it. If you ever get the chance to read the book Workd of Kong it fleshes out everything they designed for it. Dinosaurs and other creatures filling new ecological niches. It's very complete and well done.

[Loon]

@BlueKrono I haven't watched the film in quite a few years, but I do plan on watching it soon enough. I loved the idea behind those designs, though the animation always made them a little gummy, for lack of a better word. Still, I remember loving the movie, so maybe a rewatch will change my view.

[Gwangi]

I don't think that 66 million years of additional evolution would change the appearance of dinosaurs enough to make them unrecognizable as dinosaurs. Consider that more time separates Allosaurus from Tyrannosaurus but they are still obviously related and identifiable as theropods. I also recommend the book Kong: A Natural History of Skull Island which has many more speculative animals than the movie does and gets into their natural history, adaptations, and behaviors. The book is quite expensive these days, sadly.

Here's another thought for you though, in the Jurassic franchise the cloned animals are all well known and popular genera. In reality, how many of them would be completely new animals not known from the fossil record?

[Loon]

@Gwangi though, most lost world stories are restricted to islands. Don't you think that would cause a considerably larger amount of change. Maybe my wording was poor, but still, I think that amount of time combined with isolated populations would cause for quite a bit of unique adaptation. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I will have to check that book out somehow. I love a good art book and have gotten lucky getting some out of print ones in the past, so we'll see.

[stargatedalek]

Here's another thought for you though, in the Jurassic franchise the cloned animals are all well known and popular genera. In reality, how many of them would be completely new animals not known from the fossil record?

I would say this is explained to an extent, as the animals were altered to better resemble the public expectations of particular dinosaurs.

[CityRaptor]

And that was as far as the original novel.

As for a Lost World/Alternate Timeline scenario. I would expect a mix of familiar looking creatures ( but clearly not identical to their ancestors ) as well as some more exotic ones i.e. fully aquatic Spinosaurs, a rather Zallinger-esque, mostly herbivorous Tyrannosaur and some secies that are not what they seem at first like the Diablosaurus from "World of Kong" which looks rather like a Ceratopsian but is really a Sauropod.

[Cretaceous Crab]

Gregory S. Paul also sketched out his take on speculative "Cenozoic" dinosaurs, if there was no major extinction at the end of the Cretaceous. You can see it in the first Dinosaur Art book released a few years ago.

Basically, Tyrannosaurus with mere stubs for arms, hadrosaurs with more funky crests, and ceratopsians with two nasal horns.

[Gwangi]

@Gwangi though, most lost world stories are restricted to islands. Don't you think that would cause a considerably larger amount of change. Maybe my wording was poor, but still, I think that amount of time combined with isolated populations would cause for quite a bit of unique adaptation. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I will have to check that book out somehow. I love a good art book and have gotten lucky getting some out of print ones in the past, so we'll see.

I think with islands it can work either way. Animals become specialized or they remain unchanged thanks to isolation from the broader changes elsewhere. As it is islands are often touted as "lost worlds" because they're often holdouts for the last species that belong to once thriving lineages. You might be overthinking it, since these are movies made to appeal to people familiar with known dinosaurs, but overthinking these things can be fun too, and this is a fun thread.

[Gwangi]

Here's another thought for you though, in the Jurassic franchise the cloned animals are all well known and popular genera. In reality, how many of them would be completely new animals not known from the fossil record?

I would say this is explained to an extent, as the animals were altered to better resemble the public expectations of particular dinosaurs.

I suppose that's a sufficient explanation. Although it would take a lot of alteration to make something look like a Triceratops or Stegosaurus if you didn't have at least some of their DNA to work with. Kind of serendipitous that InGen would find at least some DNA from all of the most popular dinosaurs. But then again, I suppose they're maybe collecting amber from known fossil sites that would contain the remains of the animals we know about.

[Stegotyranno420]

A bit unrelated but I'm thinking of an interesting spin on the lost world trope.
What if WE are the lost world to some superior space race of humans who see us as basal primitives living with (in their eyes) primeval beasts like elephants, tigers, crocodiles, deer, etc.

[Faelrin]

@Gwangi Before they ultimately went with the hybrid idea in Jurassic World, the Indominus rex (or Malusaurus in concept art) was intended to be a new species of dinosaur discovered when cloning it. 

[Halichoeres]

@Gwangi Before they ultimately went with the hybrid idea in Jurassic World, the Indominus rex (or Malusaurus in concept art) was intended to be a new species of dinosaur discovered when cloning it.

I wasn't aware of that! Considering that amber rarely forms in the same places that vertebrate body fossils form, it seems obvious that most animals cloned from amber would be unknown ones. Somehow never happened in the JP universe, though, what are the odds!

[Faelrin]

Yeah it's rather unfortunate, and a missed opportunity there. The closest we've gotten to that is probably them going with Dreadnoughtus (2014) and Moros (2019) in Dominion, both of which were described in recent years, especially considering Dominion's original intended release in 2021, before it was delayed due to covid. Oh and maybe Nasutoceratops as well, since it debuted in Battle at Big Rock 6 years later after it was described.

I'm guessing the reasons for many of the more popular animals was to add a level of familiarity to the reader or viewer. Crichton did have some obscure ones in at the time, and of course we can't forget the Jurassic Park film made Velociraptor a household name (even if the animal depicted was actually Deinonychus instead, based on the material available at the time, aside from being sized up some).