You can support the Dinosaur Toy Forum by making dino-purchases through these links to Ebay and Amazon. Disclaimer: these and other links to Ebay.com and Amazon.com on the Dinosaur Toy Forum are often affiliate links, so when you make purchases through them we may make a commission.

avatar_Halichoeres

More on the life appearance of Dunkleosteus

Started by Halichoeres, September 10, 2024, 02:50:23 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Halichoeres

Russell Engelman follows up his paper last year, using regression analysis to argue for a shorter stouter Dunk, with another examining the constraints on appearance that can be inferred from the limited material available. This paper is unusual, though not unique, in having paleoartists explicitly included as its intended audience.

There's a strong bias in which bits of Dunkleosteus preserve, but there are a lot of specimens, some of which preserve a decent amount of three dimensional data. Some of what Engelman points out was knowable from previously published work, but some of it is definitely a refinement. One thing that surprised me was the following: "Whether the sclerotic ring of Dunkleosteus terrelli was visible in life is unclear." I have always argued for these being internal eyeball structures, as has Mark Witton, among others. But according to Engelman, their texture leaves some room for ambiguity.

Anyway, here's a visual summary of the arguments herein:
Do:


Don't:


Open access in Palaeontologia Electronica: https://palaeo-electronica.org/content/2024/5307-dunkleosteus-reconstruction
In the kingdom of the blind, better take public transit. Well, in the kingdom of the sighted, too, really--almost everyone is a terrible driver.

My attempt to find the best toy of every species

My trade/sale/wishlist thread

Sometimes I draw pictures


Faelrin

#1
I mean looking at the front armored half, it really does make a lot more sense that it would be on the shorter side. I'm glad to see the reconstruction further refined as well.

I find the schlerotic ring thing interesting. Maybe Schleich made the right call after all? Though the rest of it is much outdated though.

In any case I hope someone gives this fish an updated figure based on this newer reconstruction. I think Eikoh's strangely comes the closest from the looks of it.

There's also a new reconstruction in the paper of Coccosteus cuspidatus. First time I've seen that genus with a fluked tail. I'll have to dig into that more, as I'm surprised to see it. The paper also includes an image with the potential size disparity of the tail and body length. Certainly worth sharing here:



I think the old Kaiyodo Dinotales figure might safely fall into this potential body size range. The Favorite I think it is a tad too long. That said, the Eikoh, Kaiyodo Dinotales, and Favorite are probably the only ones to come close (with also getting the fluked tail right as well). PNSO's also gets the fluked tail right, but is obviously way too long (and was suspected of such before Engelman's first paper on this dropped). Paleozoo's 2019 model may also qualify as coming close, but is certainly the least distributed among all these options.

Edit: There's also an ontogeny series included in the paper, which is the first time I've seen that for Dunkleosteus. Really fascinating.


Film Accurate Mattel JW and JP toys list (incl. extended canon species, etc):
http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=6702

Every Single Mainline Mattel Jurassic World Species A-Z; 2024 toys added!:
https://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=9974.0

Most produced Paleozoic genera (visual encyclopedia):
https://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=9144.0

Halichoeres

Yeah, the Coccosteus tail was a bit of a surprise to me too.

The Kaiyodo Dunkleosteus from 20 years ago is really remarkable and shows just how much biological intuition their sculptors had.
In the kingdom of the blind, better take public transit. Well, in the kingdom of the sighted, too, really--almost everyone is a terrible driver.

My attempt to find the best toy of every species

My trade/sale/wishlist thread

Sometimes I draw pictures

JimoAi

Is there smaller species of dunkleosteus within the genus as to allow the Kaiyodo one to pass as it

stargatedalek

#4
Quote from: JimoAi on September 15, 2024, 04:52:02 AMIs there smaller species of dunkleosteus within the genus as to allow the Kaiyodo one to pass as it
The issues with the Kaiyodo aren't size, but rather the armor being on top of the skin (whether it was visible or not, it should not be sitting above the skin) and IIRC the gill position?

All the same, it would probably do fine as a stand in for Coccosteus. At least from a distance.

*edit*
Looking at it again, the gill is along the right piece of armor (I think) but that armor is extended further than it should be.

Turkeysaurus


Halichoeres

Quote from: Turkeysaurus on September 16, 2024, 10:29:27 AMSo he is still short and fat guy.

This is the same researcher who inferred the chunky dunk from a model based on other fishes' body shape. So it's more like he's building on that foundation, and filling in other details of appearance that are at least partially independent of the overall body shape. It's an elaboration rather than a new data point.
In the kingdom of the blind, better take public transit. Well, in the kingdom of the sighted, too, really--almost everyone is a terrible driver.

My attempt to find the best toy of every species

My trade/sale/wishlist thread

Sometimes I draw pictures

You can support the Dinosaur Toy Forum by making dino-purchases through these links to Ebay and Amazon. Disclaimer: these and other links to Ebay.com and Amazon.com on the Dinosaur Toy Forum are often affiliate links, so when you make purchases through them we may make a commission.