Bird Ancestors likely not Dinosaurs

[stoneage]

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10336-014-1098-9

[Balaur]

Alan Feduccia is at it again. Well, he's always been at it. I seriously do not like BANDITs. 

[Patrx]

Haha, I was actually pretty intrigued until I read the names of the authors. 

[Takama]

should I not even bother reading this since its by an author that I hear bad things about?

[CityRaptor]

Does Feduccia ever do "research" on other topics?

[Gwangi]

Feduccia is an ornithologist by profession I believe. Not a non-avian dinosaur paleontologist. As far as I know his work on the evolution of modern bird groups is sound, just not his hypothesis on where birds came from. I'm not certain of this, that is just my understanding.

Sure looks like a dinosaur to me, but what do I know.

[Paleogene Pals]

My vert paleo instructor referred to Feduccia as a 'flat-earther'. He also called him by another name which I can't repeat here.

[Gwangi]

My vert paleo instructor referred to Feduccia as a 'flat-earther'. He also called him by another name which I can't repeat here.

Nice  . I actually have a bird evolution book by Feduccia, I bought it on accident when I didn't know who he was. I was super excited to buy what appeared to be an excellent tome on bird evolution. Once I learned who he was I lost interest in the book. It was actually the only book on the subject at my local Borders book store which is kind of scary. Knowing that he still rejects what is nearly a universally accepted truth regarding bird evolution just turns me off to everything else he might have to say regarding birds. Even if that info is valid, how am I supposed to know the difference? Anyway, I still have the book.

[Dinoguy2]

My vert paleo instructor referred to Feduccia as a 'flat-earther'. He also called him by another name which I can't repeat here.

Nice  . I actually have a bird evolution book by Feduccia, I bought it on accident when I didn't know who he was. I was super excited to buy what appeared to be an excellent tome on bird evolution. Once I learned who he was I lost interest in the book. It was actually the only book on the subject at my local Borders book store which is kind of scary. Knowing that he still rejects what is nearly a universally accepted truth regarding bird evolution just turns me off to everything else he might have to say regarding birds. Even if that info is valid, how am I supposed to know the difference? Anyway, I still have the book.

Even though his ideas about bird evolution are pseudoscinece, his books are often worth having because he discusses and illustrates a lot of species/concepts that get ignored in other books. Not much else on primitive bird seeing published out there unfortunately!

For example, this newest paper: Yeah, the conclusions in it are wrong and therefore all the descriptions are probably highly suspicious. But he is the ONLY person studying and publishing on this important species, so at least that's *something*. This paper is worth it just to have pictures of the specimen.

[Manatee]

This was actually quite interesting... until I saw it was written by Alan Fedducia.

[DinoToyForum]

It shouldn't really make a difference who it is written by, the data either stacks up or it doesn't. (It doesn't).

[Balaur]

Actually, Larry Martim (RIP) was a BANDIT. Dis he co write some papers with Feduccia?

[Paleogene Pals]

I think it does matter who is behind an article because it should automatically set off alarm bells. For instance, if Mark McMenamin is behind an article, AVOID at all costs. He actually had an article about how giant squids hunted ichthyosaurs and arranged their bones into self portraits.   

I remember going to McMenamin talk in Denver about cannibalistic trilobites, with virtually no evidence! So, yeah, I think it does matter.

[Dinoguy2]

Actually, Larry Martim (RIP) was a BANDIT. Dis he co write some papers with Feduccia?

Yes, he did quite a few times. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=martin+and+feduccia&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C31&as_sdtp=

As did the only other major living BANDit, Theagarten Lingham-Soliar.

[SBell]

It shouldn't really make a difference who it is written by, the data either stacks up or it doesn't. (It doesn't).

The problem becomes that if a person misrepresents data or interpretations enough times, they get lumped together regardless of the work. So in this instance, even if, somehow, he actually had something valid, most people would require more info--and an independent source--to even begin to consider it.

Kind of like every time we hear about obligate T.rex scavengers--we always know that someone's name is somehow attached to the work.

[HD-man]

Yes, he did quite a few times. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=martin+and+feduccia&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C31&as_sdtp=

As did the only other major living BANDit, Theagarten Lingham-Soliar.

Don't Ruben/Jones/Geist/etc count as major?

[Dinoguy2]

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10336-014-1098-9

Headden dissected that paper in this blog post: http://qilong.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/really-again-youve-got-to-be-fucking-kidding-me/

Alan Feduccia is at it again. Well, he's always been at it. I seriously do not like BANDITs. 

All the more reason to vote "Yes" for my "More of the same old nonsense" review ( http://www.amazon.com/Riddle-Feathered-Dragons-Hidden-Birds/product-reviews/0300164351/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 ) if you haven't already.

Sorry for the self-promotion, but it's for the greater good.

Yes, he did quite a few times. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=martin+and+feduccia&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C31&as_sdtp=

As did the only other major living BANDit, Theagarten Lingham-Soliar.

Don't Ruben/Jones/Geist/etc count as major?

Yeah forgot about them, Ruben is pretty big at least!

[Trisdino]

Yay, it is the magical flying BANDits, also known as the "will you please just get the **** out of the paleo community you idiots" gang.

No but really, those people haven't the slightest clue what the hell they are talking about, refer to Aronra's "Pterosaurs are terrible lizards" video if you still do not understand why. Really, they are no better than young earth creationists, just a bunch of people denying the scientific reality by way of pseudoscience and lies. Throughout the years, they have come up with countless false claims, including, but not limited to, saying that non-avian dinosaurs did not have the right hips, that non-avian dinosaur lungs were far to different from birds to be related, and that several non-avian dinosaurs who look like birds ARE actually birds.

I do not know why they are trying to spread lies, I mean, what exactly is wrong with birds being dinosaurs? Oh well, "Thou shal not seekest reason where idiocy rules"

[DinoToyForum]

Yay, it is the magical flying BANDits, also known as the "will you please just get the **** out of the paleo community you idiots" gang.

Please stop posting things like this. Starring out the worst words doesn't undo the nasty tone - it is uncalled for. Thanks. 

[Trisdino]

Sorry, people like this just really get on my nerves.