Jurassic World 2 discussion

[Gwangi]

Clever Girl!
I think I would at least once say that.

lol, that's a great episode. But that episode exists because that is exactly the mentality that people have. The United States has invasive European starlings because the guy who released them wanted to bring over every bird ever mentioned in Shakespeare to the new world. So yeah, people do release exotic animals for idiotic reasons. If non-avian dinosaurs were around people might think similarly. Heck, in the real world you have people who want to release elephants, lions, and other mega-fauna into the United States in order to replace the mega-fauna here during the Ice Age. They call it Pleistocene re-wilding.

Wow, seriously? Are those the same people who advocate for wild mustangs because horses are originally from North America?

Probably the same people, yes. There is an entire Wikipedia page on Pleistocene rewilding that's worth checking out. To an extant I agree with it but introducing elephants and lions to the great plains is not a very realistic or wise proposal. But lions were once native to North America, and so were mammoths and mastodons so the mentality here is that bringing those animals back would fix some of the ecological problems we're facing as well as expand the range of these endangered animals. Personally I think we should just leave well enough alone. But people in this country have a hard enough time living next to coyotes and deer, never mind the lions and elephants so it's an unlikely proposition but interesting to read about.

Anyone interested in Pleistocene rewilding should check out the book "Once and Future Giants" by Sharon Levy.

[Gwangi]

Speaking of invasion species, my experiences with them include the Asian Lady Beetle, Gypsy Moth, and European Hornet.  2 or the 3 are simply nuisances while the 3rd (moth) can be very destructive!  I was also surprised to learn that several types of wildflower in my backyard were invasive as well.   Queen Ann's Lace, Canadian Thistle, and Honeysuckles are very common where I live but all originated elsewhere.

But for all of the invasive species, I'm so happy for two of them!  Namely the Chinese and European Mantis!  I simply love those things!  With all of the negatives surrounding invasive types, not all of them are bad. 

Okay, I'm done.  Had to throw in my 2 cents.

It's really amazing how many non-native species you can find in your backyard. In the United States ladybugs, dandelions, honey bees and earth worms are so common and a part of the landscape you would never guess that they too are non-native. But not all non-natives have a noticeably native impact on the environment either and some non-natives don't do well at all and die off, camels in the American west as one example. "Tinkering With Eden" by Kim Todd is a good book to read on this subject.

[laticauda]

Jurassic Park 2 speculation.   1. Jurassic World re-opens with a big ceremony to honor the fallen and Owen is the game warden.  2. Military use of Dinosaurs.  3. There will be corporate theft and multiple companies compete to create dinosaurs for use outside of biological theme parks.  For example, a competing Chinese company is designing there own attack dinosaurs, and oops they escape and kill people, but know they are not limited to an island.  So Ingen sends in their attack dinosaurs to help, and we have dinosaur battle royal. 

One of my favorite books:  Where the Wild Things Were: Life, Death, and Ecological Wreckage in a Land of Vanishing Predators
by William Stolzenburg, is a nice book that does visit the idea of re-wilding while talking about the impact we have on the environment. 

[Halichoeres]

Do you think it's biologically implausible because of the lysine thing?

I think it's implausible because I suspect that dinosaurs would actually fare rather poorly in modern ecosystems and find them inhospitable. They're equipped with a 65-200 million year old biochemistry, and plants have been in an evolutionary cold war with herbivores the entire time. So they've devised all kinds of interesting toxins that have at least the potential to wreck a dinosaur's digestive system. The partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere is also different, mostly lower, which would make their lives a little difficult. And the Earth is colder than most of the Mesozoic, to boot. They could do some damage in the tropics, but I think they would be pretty lousy invaders now. I think that applies even more forcefully to the scenario where ancient plants are the ones that get out. (Lots of plants that were common in the Mesozoic still persist, but I think it's telling that they do so in pretty marginal environments, like mountaintops and islands like New Zealand.)

It would need to be rationalized in the film, no doubt. In my scenario, the numbers would be kept low; that is, only a few species are reintroduced like five or six.

For sure. To be clear, when I said it was biologically implausible that wasn't meant as an insult. It's actually much more plausible than getting DNA out amber, for example. I'm usually willing to suspend some disbelief for a good yarn, and I still like the basic story of JP. I've got some beefs with JW, but they don't have much to do with the science, and anyway that's a subject for another thread. I like your ideas, and I mean it when I say they make some sense with the JP universe.

[Gwangi]

Jurassic Park 2 speculation.   1. Jurassic World re-opens with a big ceremony to honor the fallen and Owen is the game warden.  2. Military use of Dinosaurs.  3. There will be corporate theft and multiple companies compete to create dinosaurs for use outside of biological theme parks.  For example, a competing Chinese company is designing there own attack dinosaurs, and oops they escape and kill people, but know they are not limited to an island.  So Ingen sends in their attack dinosaurs to help, and we have dinosaur battle royal. 

One of my favorite books:  Where the Wild Things Were: Life, Death, and Ecological Wreckage in a Land of Vanishing Predators
by William Stolzenburg, is a nice book that does visit the idea of re-wilding while talking about the impact we have on the environment.

Adding that book to my Amazon list right now, looks right up my alley.

[Viking Spawn]

Speaking of invasion species, my experiences with them include the Asian Lady Beetle, Gypsy Moth, and European Hornet.  2 or the 3 are simply nuisances while the 3rd (moth) can be very destructive!  I was also surprised to learn that several types of wildflower in my backyard were invasive as well.   Queen Ann's Lace, Canadian Thistle, and Honeysuckles are very common where I live but all originated elsewhere.

But for all of the invasive species, I'm so happy for two of them!  Namely the Chinese and European Mantis!  I simply love those things!  With all of the negatives surrounding invasive types, not all of them are bad. 

Okay, I'm done.  Had to throw in my 2 cents.

It's really amazing how many non-native species you can find in your backyard. In the United States ladybugs, dandelions, honey bees and earth worms are so common and a part of the landscape you would never guess that they too are non-native. But not all non-natives have a noticeably native impact on the environment either and some non-natives don't do well at all and die off, camels in the American west as one example. "Tinkering With Eden" by Kim Todd is a good book to read on this subject.

Wow.  You're right.  I wasn't even thinking about those.  There are more than probably we think about from day to day.

I too, need to read some of these books you guys are mentioning.  With me being stuck at home for the time being, I have plenty of time for reading!

[JurassicGeek09]

One of my favorite books:  Where the Wild Things Were: Life, Death, and Ecological Wreckage in a Land of Vanishing Predators
by William Stolzenburg, is a nice book that does visit the idea of re-wilding while talking about the impact we have on the environment.

Thanks for that, that could prove to be useful inspiration.

Militarized dinosaurs seems like a bad idea to me but I think that's the road we're heading down. Honestly I think something similar to what JPFan sounds more interesting. Maybe not intentional releases into the wild but certainly a few accidentals. Or maybe dinosaurs used for some other applications. Maybe another organization *cough*Biosyn*cough* starts cloning dinosaurs and uses them for animal testing, pets, agriculture...the applications are endless. And maybe some dinosaurs escape into the wild that way and establish a wild population. It's the same thing that happens now with extant organisms. We have invasive pythons in Florida via the pet trade, invasive fish via aquaculture etc. etc. Maybe an animal rights group breaks into a testing facility and releases the dinosaurs into the wild. I'm just spit balling here but all that sound better and more realistic than the road we're heading down.

I like your thoughts here. Certainly the military could be keeping dinosaurs under lock and key for the purposes of training them for military application, but the one problem I foresee right now is, how would an ARG free them? I'm assuming the dinosaurs are being kept on a military base rather than a government building located in a major urban centre, which would be the only place they could break into. Escaping and establishing a wild population sounds good, but I think that will end up being a 100% remake of The Lost World: JP. Unless, I don't know, *everyone* agrees the dinosaurs must be put down for the sake of the mainland environment?

[Gwangi]

I wasn't trying to suggest that an activists would break them out of a military facility but rather that if dinosaurs were used for animal testing or agriculture then you might get a group that breaks them out. It happens already, animal rights activists break into fur farms and labs and set animals free. Most of the animals die because they're in a strange environment but some could theoretically establish themselves as invasive species. Using dinosaurs for testing and other more practical applications was explored in the book by InGen's rival company Biosyn. My point is that there are many directions you can take this series without having yet another park or dinosaurs with lasers strapped to their backs. Although even military applications for dinosaurs aren't that far fetched, we do it with living animals all the time.

[JurassicGeek09]

Mm, indeed I would write a story that doesn't involve a dinosaur-themed amusement park or Dino Riders. Something else that just occurred to me. Is there any way of knowing how far pterosaurs could travel? I realized I mentioned the breeding would happen in Africa, but didn't think about whether a pterosaur could fly a distance of nearly 12K km.

[Gwangi]

Mm, indeed I would write a story that doesn't involve a dinosaur-themed amusement park or Dino Riders. Something else that just occurred to me. Is there any way of knowing how far pterosaurs could travel? I realized I mentioned the breeding would happen in Africa, but didn't think about whether a pterosaur could fly a distance of nearly 12K km.

I don't see why they couldn't but actual Pteranodons didn't have a very large distribution.

[LophoLeeVT]

I just hope that they just dont use the dinosaurs for military uses.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

You know , Gwangi your thoughts and information about rewilding...it all a topic I had little knowledge of. I would encourage you to possibly give it a thread and discuss it more...I find it fascinatiing and something I have never been exposed to. I seldom read the Jurassic this and that threads on their own merits, but the entire rewilding thing I think is worth its own thread...and thanks for sharing what you have.

[Gwangi]

You know , Gwangi your thoughts and information about rewilding...it all a topic I had little knowledge of. I would encourage you to possibly give it a thread and discuss it more...I find it fascinatiing and something I have never been exposed to. I seldom read the Jurassic this and that threads on their own merits, but the entire rewilding thing I think is worth its own thread...and thanks for sharing what you have.

Glad you appreciated it. It's certainly worth discussing in it's own thread, I'll have to start one. I'm curious what others think about it too.

[AcroSauroTaurus]

I just hope that they just dont use the dinosaurs for military uses.

Actually, militarized dinosaurs is exactly what the first JW was hinting at for the sequel...

[stargatedalek]

Really thinking about it, I'd hate a JP film that tried to take military dinosaurs seriously, but a JP spin-off film that went all out and campy with military dinosaurs? That I could get behind!

[laticauda]

It would be nice if JW2 would be more of an adventure movie than the action movie I feel they have planned.  This might be a bad example, but it should be more like Predator.  Yes I know it is an action film, but through the first half of the movie, they are trekking through the woods, you see signs of the predator, but you do not see it.  You can actually feel the tension as their are trying to complete their mission, and you know they are being stalked.  I want to be awed, sure, but I also want to be emotionally tied to the story.  Fear and wonder is a great combination. 

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

It would be nice if JW2 would be more of an adventure movie than the action movie I feel they have planned.  This might be a bad example, but it should be more like Predator.  Yes I know it is an action film, but through the first half of the movie, they are trekking through the woods, you see signs of the predator, but you do not see it.  You can actually feel the tension as their are trying to complete their mission, and you know they are being stalked.  I want to be awed, sure, but I also want to be emotionally tied to the story.  Fear and wonder is a great combination.

Except once youve shown the Predator where do you go from there?  JP was like Predator in that respect but where do you go from there? Either you accept it's out in the open and build yensio in other ways ala TLW or you introduce new unknowns, JP3/ JW.

[JurassicGeek09]

I don't think militarized dinosaurs is totally stupid if the dinosaurs are used as trackers, like dogs or animals sent on recovery missions a la dolphins recovering dummy torpedoes. Unless they really go with Dino Riders, well...

[Gwangi]

It would be nice if JW2 would be more of an adventure movie than the action movie I feel they have planned.  This might be a bad example, but it should be more like Predator.  Yes I know it is an action film, but through the first half of the movie, they are trekking through the woods, you see signs of the predator, but you do not see it.  You can actually feel the tension as their are trying to complete their mission, and you know they are being stalked.  I want to be awed, sure, but I also want to be emotionally tied to the story.  Fear and wonder is a great combination.

Except once youve shown the Predator where do you go from there?  JP was like Predator in that respect but where do you go from there? Either you accept it's out in the open and build yensio in other ways ala TLW or you introduce new unknowns, JP3/ JW.

I feel like "The Lost World" was basically the "Predator" of the franchise. Not as well executed as "Predator" of course but similar enough.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

It would be nice if JW2 would be more of an adventure movie than the action movie I feel they have planned.  This might be a bad example, but it should be more like Predator.  Yes I know it is an action film, but through the first half of the movie, they are trekking through the woods, you see signs of the predator, but you do not see it.  You can actually feel the tension as their are trying to complete their mission, and you know they are being stalked.  I want to be awed, sure, but I also want to be emotionally tied to the story.  Fear and wonder is a great combination.

Except once youve shown the Predator where do you go from there?  JP was like Predator in that respect but where do you go from there? Either you accept it's out in the open and build yensio in other ways ala TLW or you introduce new unknowns, JP3/ JW.

I feel like "The Lost World" was basically the "Predator" of the franchise. Not as well executed as "Predator" of course but similar enough.

Hmm really?  It was in the jungle and had them being hunted...but they revealed the hunters way too soon. Maybe more like Predators?   JP1 much more fits the comparison for me, we even Muldoon hunting in the jungle and he's ambushed..very much like in Predator.