JURASSIC WORLD: FALLEN KINGDOM

[Reptilia]

Xenomorphs being creations of Predators, for example. For the record, I liked both JW movies, and I don't think that a plot twist like Lex and Tim being clones would ruin my enjoyement of a third chapter.

[John]

I know you were joking, but they could do something like that. These movie franchises are full with second thoughts and adjustments, I wouldn't be surprised at all to be honest.

Sadly, I agree. I said it is ridiculous to consider it, but then these films are becoming ridiculous, so who knows what's next.

I've always felt that these movies had some ridiculous things from the start.
The poison spitting and waving neck frills on the Dilophosaurus was no less ridiculous than the made up hybrids to me.And the notion of being able to PET a herbivorous dinosaur?Where Steven Spielberg sees a cow analogue,I see a potentially angry elephant or hippo!
But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the movies.

[CityRaptor]

Relevant:

Although I guess the friendlyness of the Brachios would be the result of two factors:
1. They are used to humans.
2. They consider humans too small to be a thread.

As for the Dilophosaurus: Filler DNA! Spitting is actually from the book.

[DinoToyForum]

In the JPverse, I always took the Dilophosaurus frill to be a characteristic of that dinosaur unknown from the fossil record because it is comprised of soft tissue. I'm sure we would encounter many surprises like that if we really were able to genetically engineer real dinosaurs from real dinosaur blood. Think 'All Yesterdays'. So, I don't think it is too ridiculous. I think I've said previously that 'fictional real' dinosaurs (like the JP Dilophosaurus) are more agreeable to me than 'fictional fictional' 'dinosaurs' (like the Indominus). Also, the in-JPverse motivations for the latter don't ring true for me.

Edit - In fact, my avatar on the ATF is a frilled lizard out of respect for the JP Dilophosaurus: http://animaltoyforum.com/index.php?topic=2306.msg19115#msg19115

[DinoToyForum]

What did you like and dislike about the movie?

I liked that this movie brought back a sense of suspense that hasn´t really been present in the franchise since the first movie. Lost World, JP3 and Jurassic World put the focus almost exclusively on the action scenes while neglecting to take inspiration from scenes like the raptor kitchen scene. The whole Indoraptor sequence did just that in my opinion.

Spoiler

I especially enjoyed that this movie made the T.Rex scary again. Probably my biggest problem with Jurassic World was the anthropomorphism used on the Rex and Blue. The way they set their differences aside and united against the common foe felt extremely unrealistic to me, so I was glad that Rexy was back to simply being a big predator.

[close]

These movie franchises are full with second thoughts and adjustments, I wouldn't be surprised at all to be honest.

Examples?

Maybe R @Reptilia has better examples, but I thought of a couple minor ones:
The location of the lake being moved so it is adjacent to the ocean.
I know geothermal activity is mentioned in the books, but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the movies, so the park being built on an actual island-destroying volcano seems to be an adjustment/second thought for plot convenience to me.

[Syndicate Bias]

Would've preferred to see the Spinosaurus again. I agree the volcano erupting seems pretty much convenient for plot

Also was it mentioned that the dilo was just a juvenile on jp1? I could've remembered a mention of a family of them. That there were bigger ones. I think nedry also said something to the dilo about going back to play with her siblings

[Cretaceous Crab]

Maybe R @Reptilia has better examples, but I thought of a couple minor ones:
The location of the lake being moved so it is adjacent to the ocean.
I know geothermal activity is mentioned in the books, but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the movies, so the park being built on an actual island-destroying volcano seems to be an adjustment/second thought for plot convenience to me.

I think Ludlow mentions it in TLW.

[Shadowknight1]

Maybe R @Reptilia has better examples, but I thought of a couple minor ones:
The location of the lake being moved so it is adjacent to the ocean.
I know geothermal activity is mentioned in the books, but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the movies, so the park being built on an actual island-destroying volcano seems to be an adjustment/second thought for plot convenience to me.

From The Lost World: "Hammond ran everything on geothermal power.  It was never meant to need replenishing."

[DinoToyForum]

Would've preferred to see the Spinosaurus again. I agree the volcano erupting seems pretty much convenient for plot

Also was it mentioned that the dilo was just a juvenile on jp1? I could've remembered a mention of a family of them. That there were bigger ones. I think nedry also said something to the dilo about going back to play with her siblings

He says "You're not so bad, I thought you were one of your big brothers". I think he meant different bigger dinosaur species, not bigger Dilophosaurus. I doubt Nedry knew what a Dilophosaurus was, hence being surprised by the spitting.

[DinoToyForum]

Maybe R @Reptilia has better examples, but I thought of a couple minor ones:
The location of the lake being moved so it is adjacent to the ocean.
I know geothermal activity is mentioned in the books, but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the movies, so the park being built on an actual island-destroying volcano seems to be an adjustment/second thought for plot convenience to me.

From The Lost World: "Hammond ran everything on geothermal power.  It was never meant to need replenishing."

Fair enough. Then a massive island-destroying volcano, while still a stretch, is not too ridiculous.

[Shadowknight1]

Maybe R @Reptilia has better examples, but I thought of a couple minor ones:
The location of the lake being moved so it is adjacent to the ocean.
I know geothermal activity is mentioned in the books, but I don't think it is ever mentioned in the movies, so the park being built on an actual island-destroying volcano seems to be an adjustment/second thought for plot convenience to me.

From The Lost World: "Hammond ran everything on geothermal power.  It was never meant to need replenishing."

Fair enough. Then a massive island-destroying volcano, while still a stretch, is not too ridiculous.

Not even a stretch really.  In virtually every form of media, Isla Nublar had volcanic activity.  And as residents of Hawaii can probably attest to these days, just because a volcano has been quiet for 20 years, doesn't mean it can't erupt and devastate its surroundings.  As for your opinions on the hybrids, the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park have always been hybrids.  Even in the books, they state that they typically use amphibian or reptilian DNA to fill in the gaps in the genetic sequences.  Therefore, they aren't dinosaurs.  They're mutants.  That's why the T. rex's visual acuity is based on movement, the Velociraptors are enormous and featherless, and the Dilophosaurus is runty with venomous glands that aren't supported by the fossil record(to say nothing of the frill).  Manipulating said genes to create an entirely new species is childsplay to Wu at this point.

Spoiler

And cloning a human would be far less difficult as the DNA of the donor would have far fewer gene sequence gaps.  What IS unrealistic is Maisie's age.  As near as I can determine, Hammond passed away between Jurassic Park III and Jurassic World, if not between TLW and JPIII.  Considering Maisie is at most 11, then either there are a ton of test tube abortions that didn't work out, or something else is afoot.  It IS a shame that the constructed island was just a front, a non-volcanic habitat to house the dinosaurs would've been far preferable to releasing them onto the world at large.  Bright side, there's only 11 species.  And while many of those are comprised of multiple individuals, a lot of the more dangerous ones aren't.  Blue is, so far, the only living Velociraptor.  Rexy is the only living T. rex and she's pusing old age for her species, even in the best circumstances.  While I'm fairly certain there was more than one Allosaurus seen, there was only the one Carnotaurus.  And there was only one Mosasaurus.  No matter how well they take care of themselves, in a few years, Velociraptor, Tyrannosaurus rex, Carnotaurus, and Mosasaurus will again be extinct.

[close]

[Gwangi]

I didn't like the hybrid dinosaurs on the principle that I would prefer to see real dinosaurs on screen but they worked well as plot devices. The original "Jurassic Park" came out when we were only just beginning to fiddle with genetics to see what we can do. Now it's 25 years later and we're having debates over GMOs, gene editing, stem cells etc. "Jurassic World" is staying culturally relevant.

This is long winded but bare with me. A real world example that I like to bring up because I've watched it first hand is the debate over aquarium fishes. Yes, aquarium fishes. I used to be big into the fish hobby, worked in a pet store for awhile, even publish articles on the topic occasionally. We have literally thousands of fish species we could stock our aquariums with. Should be good enough right? Well, it's not. If you go to a pet store you'll see very few fishes that resemble their wild forms. Most are selectively bred for brighter colors, longer fins, odd body shapes. I'm talking guppies, goldfish, mollies, Betta etc.

Those variations should add enough diversity to appease customers right? Well it hasn't stopped people from hybridizing fish too. Blood parrot cichlids and flowerhorn cichlids in particular are very popular. A prize flowerhorn can cost thousands of dollars. It's not a natural species, it's a hybrid. And now we're starting to see the GMO fishes, fishes with genes from other animals coded into them to create a glowing effect. Glofish they're called, they were a big deal about a decade ago. The first trans-genetic pet. So now when you walk into a fish store you see that 2/3 of the place is devoted to selectively bred mutants, hybrids, and trans-genetic animals. Natural, wild-type fishes are not as popular or common. Now I'm into the reptile scene and it's the same thing. Thousands of dollars for a particular color morph, scaleless lizards and snakes, and hybrids too. We'll be seeing Glo-lizards before too long.

"Jurassic World" needs new dinosaurs, they're boring the same way conventional fish are apparently boring. Yeah, zoos still make money without mutant elephants but you can hop in your car and visit a zoo that's an hour away, and pay a small fee to see the animals. "Jurassic World" is an island resort that only the rich can afford. They need to up their game, I get it. And Dr. Wu is obviously a mad scientist who wants to see how far he can push the technology. Creating standard dinosaurs is probably boring for him personally. His character in these movies echo his character in the book as far as I can tell. As they said in JW:FK, once you open the box you can't close it back up again.

This is only concerning the addition of hybrid dinosaurs. Not other plot devices, continuity errors, and other matters you could be critical of. Personally I enjoyed JW:FK, perhaps more-so than JW. The continuity doesn't bother me. Heck, remember the vanishing moat in the original "Jurassic Park"? That's far more jarring than the Mosasaur pond moving. That said, I'm happy to just see dinosaurs in movies. I still watch schlock like "The Land Unknown" and "The Last Dinosaur". "Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom" is Oscar worthy by compare to the dinosaur movies of old. And anything is better than JP3 which I also still watch, because dinosaurs. 

[Papi-Anon]

I didn't like the hybrid dinosaurs on the principle that I would prefer to see real dinosaurs on screen but they worked well as plot devices. The original "Jurassic Park" came out when we were only just beginning to fiddle with genetics to see what we can do. Now it's 25 years later and we're having debates over GMOs, gene editing, stem cells etc. "Jurassic World" is staying culturally relevant.

This is long winded but bare with me. A real world example that I like to bring up because I've watched it first hand is the debate over aquarium fishes. Yes, aquarium fishes. I used to be big into the fish hobby, worked in a pet store for awhile, even publish articles on the topic occasionally. We have literally thousands of fish species we could stock our aquariums with. Should be good enough right? Well, it's not. If you go to a pet store you'll see very few fishes that resemble their wild forms. Most are selectively bred for brighter colors, longer fins, odd body shapes. I'm talking guppies, goldfish, mollies, Betta etc.

Those variations should add enough diversity to appease customers right? Well it hasn't stopped people from hybridizing fish too. Blood parrot cichlids and flowerhorn cichlids in particular are very popular. A prize flowerhorn can cost thousands of dollars. It's not a natural species, it's a hybrid. And now we're starting to see the GMO fishes, fishes with genes from other animals coded into them to create a glowing effect. Glofish they're called, they were a big deal about a decade ago. The first trans-genetic pet. So now when you walk into a fish store you see that 2/3 of the place is devoted to selectively bred mutants, hybrids, and trans-genetic animals. Natural, wild-type fishes are not as popular or common. Now I'm into the reptile scene and it's the same thing. Thousands of dollars for a particular color morph, scaleless lizards and snakes, and hybrids too. We'll be seeing Glo-lizards before too long.

"Jurassic World" needs new dinosaurs, they're boring the same way conventional fish are apparently boring. Yeah, zoos still make money without mutant elephants but you can hop in your car and visit a zoo that's an hour away, and pay a small fee to see the animals. "Jurassic World" is an island resort that only the rich can afford. They need to up their game, I get it. And Dr. Wu is obviously a mad scientist who wants to see how far he can push the technology. Creating standard dinosaurs is probably boring for him personally. His character in these movies echo his character in the book as far as I can tell. As they said in JW:FK, once you open the box you can't close it back up again.

This is only concerning the addition of hybrid dinosaurs. Not other plot devices, continuity errors, and other matters you could be critical of. Personally I enjoyed JW:FK, perhaps more-so than JW. The continuity doesn't bother me. Heck, remember the vanishing moat in the original "Jurassic Park"? That's far more jarring than the Mosasaur pond moving. That said, I'm happy to just see dinosaurs in movies. I still watch schlock like "The Land Unknown" and "The Last Dinosaur". "Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom" is Oscar worthy by compare to the dinosaur movies of old. And anything is better than JP3 which I also still watch, because dinosaurs.

Dodgson was worried InGen would try to make pet dinosaurs in the book, maybe we'll see Wu make a house-rex or a laborador raptor.

On that note...

I'd like to live to see the day we can genetically-modify a monitor lizard or alligator to have empathy and obedience on par with a golden retriever. I'd pay good money to have one too. Skip the superficial gimmicks, I just want a lovable lizard or gator just as friendly and affectionate as a dog while not hankering for human-flesh.

[paintingdinos]

On the topic of second thoughts and adjustments...

Spoiler

This isn't really an adjustment of the canon so much as it is an adjustment of... reality? Did they ever specify exactly how long they were on that boat for?

Because a boat trip from Costa Rica to Northern California is over 3k miles. Considering the WEIGHT of their cargo, they can't have been going all that fast, and that trip would have likely been over a week, probably closer to two. All the while our "heros" go completely unnoticed... and I guess Blue continues to hemorrhage? How many times did they have to go back for Rex blood, you wonder.... and on that note, how often were they having to administer sedatives to that Rex??? She's an old dog, man... how did she even survive that much drugging???

[close]

[laticauda]

On the topic of second thoughts and adjustments...

Spoiler

This isn't really an adjustment of the canon so much as it is an adjustment of... reality? Did they ever specify exactly how long they were on that boat for?

Because a boat trip from Costa Rica to Northern California is over 3k miles. Considering the WEIGHT of their cargo, they can't have been going all that fast, and that trip would have likely been over a week, probably closer to two. All the while our "heros" go completely unnoticed... and I guess Blue continues to hemorrhage? How many times did they have to go back for Rex blood, you wonder.... and on that note, how often were they having to administer sedatives to that Rex??? She's an old dog, man... how did she even survive that much drugging???

[close]

As I have stated this is part of the problem, not just with JWFK, but with movies in general lately.  They move so fast to get from one action set piece to the next, they do not care about plot development and holes.  Just get to the next set piece.  I call it the SW Phantom menace effect. 

I might be in the minority in this thinking though.  I had a discussion with some people about the movie and they gave a simple counter argument to my issues dealing with plot, story...etc.  Their reply was..."it doesn't need to be anything else, it is just a dinosaur movie." 

[Shadowknight1]

On the topic of second thoughts and adjustments...

Spoiler

This isn't really an adjustment of the canon so much as it is an adjustment of... reality? Did they ever specify exactly how long they were on that boat for?

Because a boat trip from Costa Rica to Northern California is over 3k miles. Considering the WEIGHT of their cargo, they can't have been going all that fast, and that trip would have likely been over a week, probably closer to two. All the while our "heros" go completely unnoticed... and I guess Blue continues to hemorrhage? How many times did they have to go back for Rex blood, you wonder.... and on that note, how often were they having to administer sedatives to that Rex??? She's an old dog, man... how did she even survive that much drugging???

[close]

As I have stated this is part of the problem, not just with JWFK, but with movies in general lately.  They move so fast to get from one action set piece to the next, they do not care about plot development and holes.  Just get to the next set piece.  I call it the SW Phantom menace effect. 

I might be in the minority in this thinking though.  I had a discussion with some people about the movie and they gave a simple counter argument to my issues dealing with plot, story...etc.  Their reply was..."it doesn't need to be anything else, it is just a dinosaur movie."

Honestly, when I leave a theater, I ask myself one question.  "Was I entertained?"  If the answer is yes, then I'm fine with it.

[paintingdinos]

Yeah, but sometimes its fun to pick these things apart    I can only speak for myself of course, but its all coming from a light-hearted place.

I'm not too fussed with whatever they choose to do with these movies- I'm really not that invested.

[Shadowknight1]

Yeah, but sometimes its fun to pick these things apart    I can only speak for myself of course, but its all coming from a light-hearted place.

I'm not too fussed with whatever they choose to do with these movies- I'm really not that invested.

I am, but not so much that I'm not going to throw a fit if they take it in a direction I don't want and yell that the movie needs a remake.  Say what you will about the Jurassic movies, but at least the fans aren't THAT crazy.

[laticauda]

I was entertained...but I know it could have been better.  Is it wrong to want or expect better? 

[Loon]

I am, but not so much that I'm not going to throw a fit if they take it in a direction I don't want and yell that the movie needs a remake.  Say what you will about the Jurassic movies, but at least the fans aren't THAT crazy.

I am, they killed Isla Nublar, I'm starting a petition on change.org to remove Fallen Kingdom from the cannon! Who will be strong and stand with me!