Torosaurus. ITs own Genus? or A Mature Triceratops

[Takama]

Ok i plan on commissioning a mass produced model of a Triceratops. but instead of the typical Triceratops that everyone does, i thought i make a torosaurus and call it that.


But i want to see who all agrees with this notion.   If more votes say its its own genus, then i will base the model on a basic Triceratops. If more votes say its a Mature Triceratops, then it will be based on Torosaurus


Before anyone says anything, Thomas Holtz(one of my most trusted sources) flat out said that the debate is up in the air still.

[Simon]

Ok i plan on commissioning a mass produced model of a Triceratops. but instead of the typical Triceratops that everyone does, i thought i make a torosaurus and call it that.


But i want to see who all agrees with this notion.   If more votes say its its own genus, then i will base the model on a basic Triceratops. If more votes say its a Mature Triceratops, then it will be based on Torosaurus


Before anyone says anything, Thomas Holtz(one of my most trusted sources) flat out said that the debate is up in the air still.

[Takama]

Ok i plan on commissioning a mass produced model of a Triceratops. but instead of the typical Triceratops that everyone does, i thought i make a torosaurus and call it that.


But i want to see who all agrees with this notion.   If more votes say its its own genus, then i will base the model on a basic Triceratops. If more votes say its a Mature Triceratops, then it will be based on Torosaurus


Before anyone says anything, Thomas Holtz(one of my most trusted sources) flat out said that the debate is up in the air still.

Thank you for your CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism 

[stargatedalek]

As I see it Torosaurus was probably Triceratops, but not necessarily one of the two recognized species.

[Dinoguy2]

The debate is still up in the air. Some people think it's not because the most recent paper to come out concluded "no". These people have no understanding of how science works.

Comission the figure and don't label it. It will represent a real animal no matter what ontogenetic stage it turns out to be. Assuming we ever settle the debate, which for all we know we might never do in a thousand years.

Always remember, in science "I don't know" is often the correct answer/opinion.

[tyrantqueen]

Ok i plan on commissioning a mass produced model of a Triceratops. but instead of the typical Triceratops that everyone does, i thought i make a torosaurus and call it that.


But i want to see who all agrees with this notion.   If more votes say its its own genus, then i will base the model on a basic Triceratops. If more votes say its a Mature Triceratops, then it will be based on Torosaurus


Before anyone says anything, Thomas Holtz(one of my most trusted sources) flat out said that the debate is up in the air still.

*snip*

Thank you for your CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism 

Don't be so easily offended. He's only teasing

[Simon]

The debate is still up in the air. Some people think it's not because the most recent paper to come out concluded "no". These people have no understanding of how science works.

Comission the figure and don't label it. It will represent a real animal no matter what ontogenetic stage it turns out to be. Assuming we ever settle the debate, which for all we know we might never do in a thousand years.

Always remember, in science "I don't know" is often the correct answer/opinion.

I agree with the highlighted part above 110%  Who cares what you call it so long as it represents a known animal?

[Derek.McManus]

Representing a real animal, such a simple and effective idea!

For what it's worth I suspect that it was a form of Tricertops but that's just my opinion.

Good luck with your project!

[pylraster]

I think they are separate animals. But if you'll ask me, go make the Torosaurus. There are plenty of Triceratops figures out there already, and the Torosaurus would be a welcome change.

[Derek.McManus]

I think they are separate animals. But if you'll ask me, go make the Torosaurus. There are plenty of Triceratops figures out there already, and the Torosaurus would be a welcome change.

Another very sensible idea, the market is flooded with Triceratops models.

[Kovu]

You could call it "Hell Creek Three-Horn" and then your customers could just apply whatever naming schema they follow to it.

[stargatedalek]

One pet peeve I'd like to note is that the question is phrased wrong. The question is rather Torosaurus should be considered a valid genus, not species.

[Takama]

One pet peeve I'd like to note is that the question is phrased wrong. The question is rather Torosaurus should be considered a valid genus, not species.

Fixed that

Ok i plan on commissioning a mass produced model of a Triceratops. but instead of the typical Triceratops that everyone does, i thought i make a torosaurus and call it that.


But i want to see who all agrees with this notion.   If more votes say its its own genus, then i will base the model on a basic Triceratops. If more votes say its a Mature Triceratops, then it will be based on Torosaurus


Before anyone says anything, Thomas Holtz(one of my most trusted sources) flat out said that the debate is up in the air still.

*snip*

Thank you for your CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism 

Don't be so easily offended. He's only teasing

Sorry its my Aspergers. I sometimes cant tell is someone is teasing.   Sorry Simon

[AcroSauroTaurus]

Well, I don't see Torosaurus as a mature Triceratops horridus, I consider it its own genus, especially after the paper that concluded the debate. However they could put it in the Triceratops genus, but as a third species: Triceratops latus, and I'd be fine with that.

[Takama]

Well i want to make some common species first for the line, but the market is saturated with Triceratops that i wished that Torosaurus was Triceratops.


I like the idea of calling it Triceratops latus, though there will be a note saying that its based on Torosaurus.

[Dinoguy2]

Well i want to make some common species first for the line, but the market is saturated with Triceratops that i wished that Torosaurus was Triceratops.


I like the idea of calling it Triceratops latus, though there will be a note saying that its based on Torosaurus.

How about Nedoceratops or Tatankaceratops? Less of a debate over those being synonyms. Also, almost every toy Triceratops is based on immature specimens (more upright horns, big frill epioccipitals). Almost nobody makes figures of more mature Triceratops. So you could have a different looking mature Triceratops even without bringing Torosaurus into the equation.

Mature T. prorsus:


Mature T. horridus:


Or you could base it on the AMNH trike, which is currently classified as a mature T. horridus but might actually be an immature Torosaurus (or a transitional stage between the two if they're the same animal):

[Megalosaurus]

I voted for Torosaurus. There's only a few torosaurus figures.

Round 1

Fight!

[Balaur]

To me Torosaurus is very obviously its own thing for several reasons:
1. Torosaurus is found in older deposits than Triceratops
2. Torosaurus has large fenestrae in its frill while Triceratops have very solid frills lacking any fenestrae
3. We have juveniles of both Triceratops and Torosaurus.

The question is is it a species of Triceratops or its own genus... The Saurian team thinks that it is a species of Triceratops, but I'm not sure. I think that is something we still have yet decided on.

[Dinoguy2]

To me Torosaurus is very obviously its own thing for several reasons:
1. Torosaurus is found in older deposits than Triceratops
2. Torosaurus has large fenestrae in its frill while Triceratops have very solid frills lacking any fenestrae
3. We have juveniles of both Triceratops and Torosaurus.

The question is is it a species of Triceratops or its own genus... The Saurian team thinks that it is a species of Triceratops, but I'm not sure. I think that is something we still have yet decided on.

1. and 3. are only true for "T." utahensis which is probably a genus distinct from all of them. And none of the juveniles have skulls - their classification as T. utahensis is based purely on the time and place they were found in. Torosaurus latus is known from the same deposits as Triceratops horridus and no juveniles have ever been identified.

[Takama]

Ok I relly want to make a Torosaurus. But IT will be called a Triceratops(Torosaurus) and a species epitatate. now which species should it be?  Triceratops(Torosaurus) latus or Triceratops(Torosaurus) horridus.