Controversial opinions on dinosaur toys

[suspsy]

I think if Safari had unveiled the Papo Amargasaurus as one of Doug Watson's creations, fans would think it's finally time for him to retire.

[Python]

It's buying KO's of widely and currently available things that I'm not so fond of, such as those Favorite bootlegs....

I only bought the Favorite Knockoffs because they were being sold in a set with the others

[Lynx]

I tend to buy knockoffs if they look better than the original product, or are so similar in quality it's not even worth buying the original anymore.

[SidB]

One example of a knock-off being an improvement is the Papo Iguanodon one. Looks identical, but without the articulated jaw, which makes the Papo original look like a marionette.

[Python]

Unfortunately, companies like Favorite and Colorata are hard to come across in the west, so for me, these knockoffs are a necessary evil.

[stargatedalek]

I get buying them in a set for some of the altered ones, that makes it different.

But no, those companies are not difficult to get in America. Can you walk into a Walmart and get them? No. But you can't walk into a Walmart and get Safari ltd. despite it being an American brand. Colorata are even sold through Amazon in their original boxed sets, and Favorite are available through Hobbylink and most other Japanese goods importers (meaning by extension, most specialty retailers near you can order them if you ask).

[Gothmog the Baryonyx]

The west is more than just the US

[Bread]

But no, those companies are not difficult to get in America. Can you walk into a Walmart and get them? No. But you can't walk into a Walmart and get Safari ltd. despite it being an American brand. Colorata are even sold through Amazon in their original boxed sets, and Favorite are available through Hobbylink and most other Japanese goods importers (meaning by extension, most specialty retailers near you can order them if you ask).

As someone who has researched in trying to find the original set, they only appear to be on ebay for $70+. I have yet to find them on amazon. I originally had an order for them on hobbylink japan but ended up canceling after months of waiting. If you have links for amazon I'd appreciate it and others would probably as well.

Edit: The order through hobbylink japan had some favorite models and not entirely the colorata set.

[stargatedalek]

But no, those companies are not difficult to get in America. Can you walk into a Walmart and get them? No. But you can't walk into a Walmart and get Safari ltd. despite it being an American brand. Colorata are even sold through Amazon in their original boxed sets, and Favorite are available through Hobbylink and most other Japanese goods importers (meaning by extension, most specialty retailers near you can order them if you ask).

As someone who has researched in trying to find the original set, they only appear to be on ebay for $70+. I have yet to find them on amazon. I originally had an order for them on hobbylink japan but ended up canceling after months of waiting. If you have links for amazon I'd appreciate it and others would probably as well.

Edit: The order through hobbylink japan had some favorite models and not entirely the colorata set.

The Paleozoic marine life set is an extra large set, a bit over $70 is the normal price.

[Python]

Dejankin's carries a majority of Favorites dinosaur softmodels, but they don't have the prehistoric life set (dunkle, archelon, megalodon) and the archaeopteryx, and I emailed them and they explained their supply chain issues to me. Even then, the knockoffs I got were a cheaper and easily obtainable alternative to Colorata's box sets so I had to jump on that opportunity

[Shane]

I think if Safari had unveiled the Papo Amargasaurus as one of Doug Watson's creations, fans would think it's finally time for him to retire.

I would have to agree.

The Papo Amarga wasn't just not up to Papo standards of detail, it was just an objectively bad design.

If it was unveiled as a Doug sculpt I think people would question whether he had actually done it.

[suspsy]

I think if Safari had unveiled the Papo Amargasaurus as one of Doug Watson's creations, fans would think it's finally time for him to retire.

I would have to agree.

The Papo Amarga wasn't just not up to Papo standards of detail, it was just an objectively bad design.

If it was unveiled as a Doug sculpt I think people would question whether he had actually done it.

It would be like someone plunking a cold Quarter Pounder in front of you and saying that Jamie Oliver made it himself.

[Halichoeres]

Ok here's my controversial opinion. I would buy a knockoff of a prehistoric animal figure if I couldn't justify making a purchase for the real thing. With things like Collecta and Safari Ltd, I'm not as cheap as I can usually find them, but things like the Colorata Prehistoric Marine Life set, I found some knockoffs on Amazon and got them. They were surprisingly well made and the Cameroceras was closer to 1:40 than the actual figure.

I don't believe I'm doing anybody dirty like this, and I'm still getting the same creatures. The Anomalocaris, Opabinia, and Olenoides are clearly designed after the Favorite models. I would never try to build an entire collection of knockoffs, as the actual versions are most of the time better, but I would do this once in a while so I'd save money and get the species I'm after.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that this is harmless. There's a Polish workshop called Kamyk that makes a meter-long Aspidichthys model for $2,000 that I would love to have. But it's larger than I'd prefer, and it's much more expensive than I can afford. But if someone who had one made a copy at half the size, and a tenth the price, that would not justify my buying the cheaper copy. That would support theft from Kamyk's business.

Favorite and Colorata are pretty small companies. When you buy from them, you're not just buying paint and plastic. You're also paying for the research that their sculptors did, and the risk and investment the company took in machining the original molds and launching a new product with unknown prospects of success. You're paying for the many years of training that their sculptors had in art techniques and anatomy. In the case of Favorite, that's Hirokazu Tokugawa, who I think is one of the finest illustrators and sculptors in the business (http://a-fragi.blogspot.com/). Colorata doesn't disclose the sculptor who made their Paleozoic boxed set, but it's someone with a high degree of skill and attention to detail. To make a knockoff, the only skill required is the ability to copy a mold. Every time someone buys a knockoff, it reduces the chance that something similarly cool will be made again. Dinosaur model kit makers have been driven out of business by knockoffs. Rumor has it that the legendary Play Visions, while they still exist as a company, stopped making animal replicas because of knockoffs.

And as stargatedalek pointed out, Favorite and Colorata products are inconvenient to get, but not impossible. HobbyLink Japan and HobbySearch both carry Favorite products at least intermittently, and ship to most countries. Failing that, I'd encourage you to contact forum member @brettnj, who can get most products from Japan cheaper than eBay.

[Shane]

Ok here's my controversial opinion. I would buy a knockoff of a prehistoric animal figure if I couldn't justify making a purchase for the real thing. With things like Collecta and Safari Ltd, I'm not as cheap as I can usually find them, but things like the Colorata Prehistoric Marine Life set, I found some knockoffs on Amazon and got them. They were surprisingly well made and the Cameroceras was closer to 1:40 than the actual figure.

I don't believe I'm doing anybody dirty like this, and I'm still getting the same creatures. The Anomalocaris, Opabinia, and Olenoides are clearly designed after the Favorite models. I would never try to build an entire collection of knockoffs, as the actual versions are most of the time better, but I would do this once in a while so I'd save money and get the species I'm after.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that this is harmless. There's a Polish workshop called Kamyk that makes a meter-long Aspidichthys model for $2,000 that I would love to have. But it's larger than I'd prefer, and it's much more expensive than I can afford. But if someone who had one made a copy at half the size, and a tenth the price, that would not justify my buying the cheaper copy. That would support theft from Kamyk's business.

Favorite and Colorata are pretty small companies. When you buy from them, you're not just buying paint and plastic. You're also paying for the research that their sculptors did, and the risk and investment the company took in machining the original molds and launching a new product with unknown prospects of success. You're paying for the many years of training that their sculptors had in art techniques and anatomy. In the case of Favorite, that's Hirokazu Tokugawa, who I think is one of the finest illustrators and sculptors in the business (http://a-fragi.blogspot.com/). Colorata doesn't disclose the sculptor who made their Paleozoic boxed set, but it's someone with a high degree of skill and attention to detail. To make a knockoff, the only skill required is the ability to copy a mold. Every time someone buys a knockoff, it reduces the chance that something similarly cool will be made again. Dinosaur model kit makers have been driven out of business by knockoffs. Rumor has it that the legendary Play Visions, while they still exist as a company, stopped making animal replicas because of knockoffs.

And as stargatedalek pointed out, Favorite and Colorata products are inconvenient to get, but not impossible. HobbyLink Japan and HobbySearch both carry Favorite products at least intermittently, and ship to most countries. Failing that, I'd encourage you to contact forum member @brettnj, who can get most products from Japan cheaper than eBay.

My rule - if the "real thing" exists, don't buy a bootleg or a fake.

Cracking down on bootlegs and fakes is prohibitively difficult for a variety of reasons, and buying bootlegs is definitely harmful especially to smaller companies.

[Concavenator]

I'm firmly against buying any bootlegs or knockoffs. As mentioned by others, it represents a direct damage to anyone involved in the design or creation of the original models. It doesn't just damage the designers financially, by buying the bootlegs instead of the original, I think it's more than just that. To me it's also a disrespect to their work, and it doesn't matter what company or person we are talking about. Even if for some reason the bootleg looked better than the original I still wouldn't buy it. Even if you may refer to a particular model as ugly or unappealing, the sculptors and company behind it still had to dedicate time and effort to design it, whereas in the case of people involved in making the bootlegs, all they do is copy existing designs and make profit out of ideas that don't belong to them. For example, I have always admired the Sideshow models, and the Apatosaurus was probably my favorite, but I can't afford these models. If a knockoff appears, I don't care how good it looks or how close to the real thing is, I simply won't get it. If I can't have the original, then so be it. I won't support anyone who copies others' work and make profit out of it. Like I said, to me that would also be a disrespect to the company behind the original model (Sideshow in this case). 

Ethics aside, what I mentioned about bootlegs looking better than the originals is clearly an exception, it's not usually the case. In fact, the most common thing is that they look worse than the originals, how much worse depends on the different bootlegs. To each their own, but I don't want to get for my collection a bootleg of a figure knowing the original is a better version (not just morally, but also with higher quality). I have my own price range that I can afford / I'm willing to pay for a figure. Within that range, all I purchase is original. If it's out of that range, then I won't get it, but I wouldn't buy knockoffs either, simply because they're cheaper and are on my range.

[Halichoeres]

My rule - if the "real thing" exists, don't buy a bootleg or a fake.

Cracking down on bootlegs and fakes is prohibitively difficult for a variety of reasons, and buying bootlegs is definitely harmful especially to smaller companies.

Yeah, that's my policy too. I can sort of see an argument or rationalization for buying knockoffs of discontinued items, on the logic that in theory the original company could have legitimately sold the molds, but I still don't buy them myself because I notice that they tend to be the same companies knocking off in-production figures too.

With the Colorata Paleozoic figures in particular, I tend to see the knockoffs show up more often than the originals. I find that really worrisome because I think that was their coolest set and I don't want them to be discouraged in any way from trying something similar in the future.

[Strepsodus]

I can totally understand where you guys are coming from, as I usually try to obtain the original over a knockoff, but not everyone can afford to spend $70 and up on an obscure set, when the same amount of money could buy several figures of equal quality from Safari or Collecta. I'm guessing that was what P @Python was referencing.

And at the risk of sounding confrontational, this is a thread for people's controversial opinions, and that's why we should be tolerant and open-minded about other people's collecting preferences and opnions.

[Dusty Wren]

I can totally understand where you guys are coming from, as I usually try to obtain the original over a knockoff, but not everyone can afford to spend $70 and up on an obscure set, when the same amount of money could buy several figures of equal quality from Safari or Collecta. I'm guessing that was what P @Python was referencing.

I don't think someone's desire to own a particular figure is somehow more important than the artist's desire to be paid for their work and skill. If a set is $70, you can decide that's more money than you're willing to pay and not buy it, or decide to forgo other figures to save up for it. The answer isn't to pay a bootlegger to steal someone else's work.

[stargatedalek]

I think there is a point where I would at least not be judgmental over doing it for money. $70 is far below that point however, especially considering that's for a rather large set of figures.

Buying a plastic bootleg of a several hundred dollar resin statue for $40, while I wouldn't support that, I certainly wouldn't directly oppose it. That's the kind of money where you might not be able to ever have the original, or you might have spent it anyway and genuinely suffer for it. And those sorts of high prices are due to material costs anyway.

[Strepsodus]

I was just providing reasons why it might be someone's last resort to buy a bootleg, considering that there are plenty of real-life factors that play into having enough money to buy a dinosaur figure. Like, say, a sudden shortage of cash. I don't believe it's fair that having a positive opinion about (some) knockoffs would elicit this kind of reaction. I would be upset about buying a knockoff of a Collecta or Safari dinosaur because those are very common to come across online and the bootleggers would try to rip you off by making you pay more for the cheap bootleg than the original figure, which is better. I've made the decision to buy the same knockoffs of the Colorata figures that python bought, and I don't regret doing so.