The Visual Guide to Scale Model Dinosaurs

[tyrantqueen]

I was doing some googling when I came across this book



   

The book is a document of nearly every resin, bronze, and vinyl model made in the last 40 years of not only dinosaurs but other prehistoric animals. These are the high-end, museum-quality, artistic pieces that are more accurate and realistic than any number of plastic toys which have nearly destroyed the true image of dinosaurs.
    It catalogs around 300 artists/studios, listing all their works with size, scale or year of release. There are 1000 color photos. Special features include a sculpting how-to by a well-known artist, an artist roundtable discussion, collector commentary and an index whereby you can look up a particular dinosaur and see what artist or company has offered it.

Apparently this is coming out in November 2012. More info here http://www.collectorsquest.com/blog/2012/08/06/scale-model-dinosaur/

If it is released, I would totally love to get a copy of this! Any thoughts?

...I have to admit the writer seems a bit harsh on toy dinosaurs though

[Jetoar]

Interesting. I would like to see its pages  .

[SBell]

I'm more interested in who this person is, and how they have determined their 'expert' status. If it was one of the listed authors, why wouldn't he go by that name?

[mmfrankford]

CQ: You state that this book is about 'high end' dinosaur models. What's the dividing line between a 'toy' and a 'model' which you've defined for this book?

D: Makers of high end dinosaur models try hard not to compromise accuracy. Toys always compromise accuracy for balance or "play value". Companies that specialize in toys usually hire guys who don't know dinosaur physiology; I'd wager they almost prefer artists who never made a dinosaur before! Sometimes they consult outdated reference books just because the paintings look decent to them. They hire these guys and want the models finished yesterday, leaving them hardly any room to research. Makers of the models in this book take their time – however long it takes to make a model accurate. They are so good they should be hired by said toy companies but the manufacturers just don't care, or they're too cheap, etcetera. (I get into some of this in the history section of the guide.) Easiest way to make my point is put a handmade, museum-quality lion sculpture next to a PVC lion toy made in China and you'd see quite the difference. The same is true of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures

Alrighty then. I think someone didn't get the toys they wanted as a kid and is bitter. 

[CityRaptor]

Yeah, that guy sounds bitter. Like he either only got Chinasaurs or was a sculptor who was never hired. Also seems to not know that Companies actually have to care for costs.

But I want to look into that book. I want to see where he places the various  museum quality lines and other actually well researched toylines.

[dinonikes]

I agree that there seems to be a real prejudice against toy lines in the promotion for this book, which I personally dont share. Not sure if I will 'make the cut' with my figures, dont really care either to be honest. I have found that the toys coming out now have had a high quality that obviously is highly influenced and limited as well by the processes used to make vinyl PVC products. There are things that resin models can have that toys just cant as far as details and other issues, and some which can be done with toys that cant be done in the resin meduim(durability and fragility of resin casts come to mind immediately, as well as sheer numbers of each specific toy available to collectors as opposed to usually very limited runs of resin models). I think that lines have to be put into proper perspective as well, based on the time they were issued, for instance the Battat line. Resin models and toys each have their own place in the collecting world, each has its own strengths and weaknesses, to claim one is superior to the other shows a lack of an open mind and a poorly developed aesthetic sensibility.
I will concede that prehistoric toys made in the last few decades could be better, I guess. I am now thinking of the details that the Marx company were able to have in their lines of soldiers and other figures back in the 50's and sixties- the level of details and other artistic achievements of the Marx company was really astounding artistically and technically, and I have always sort of felt it a shame that their dinosaur line did not have the same qualities that they put into for example their Blue and Gray civil war playest made in the 50's (just look at the shot confederate soldier made for this set, which is, to me at least, one of the all time masterpieces of plastic PVC toys of ANY time, or the shot horse and rider made for the same set and they are just plain and simple great sculptures).
I think that the author of this book comes off as an aesthetic snob in the promo material for the book, obviously doesnt get what make toys of any kind special, their inherent qualities. He has his own opinion, and when it comes to art, which I have always considered toys of ALL kinds to be, opinions are just that. Toymaking is a form of art that is so much a reflection of the times that it is made in, which to me anyways is a good measure of great art.

[tyrantqueen]

I'm more interested in who this person is, and how they have determined their 'expert' status. If it was one of the listed authors, why wouldn't he go by that name?

It seems to be a self bestowed title. Although I admit his collection is certainly impressive

I agree that there seems to be a real prejudice against toy lines in the promotion for this book, which I personally dont share. Not sure if I will 'make the cut' with my figures, dont really care either to be honest. I have found that the toys coming out now have had a high quality that obviously is highly influenced and limited as well by the processes used to make vinyl PVC products. There are things that resin models can have that toys just cant as far as details and other issues, and some which can be done with toys that cant be done in the resin meduim(durability and fragility of resin casts come to mind immediately, as well as sheer numbers of each specific toy available to collectors as opposed to usually very limited runs of resin models). I think that lines have to be put into proper perspective as well, based on the time they were issued, for instance the Battat line. Resin models and toys each have their own place in the collecting world, each has its own strengths and weaknesses, to claim one is superior to the other shows a lack of an open mind and a poorly developed aesthetic sensibility.
I will concede that prehistoric toys made in the last few decades could be better, I guess. I am now thinking of the details that the Marx company were able to have in their lines of soldiers and other figures back in the 50's and sixties- the level of details and other artistic achievements of the Marx company was really astounding artistically and technically, and I have always sort of felt it a shame that their dinosaur line did not have the same qualities that they put into for example their Blue and Gray civil war playest made in the 50's (just look at the shot confederate soldier made for this set, which is, to me at least, one of the all time masterpieces of plastic PVC toys of ANY time, or the shot horse and rider made for the same set and they are just plain and simple great sculptures).
I think that the author of this book comes off as an aesthetic snob in the promo material for the book, obviously doesnt get what make toys of any kind special, their inherent qualities. He has his own opinion, and when it comes to art, which I have always considered toys of ALL kinds to be, opinions are just that. Toymaking is a form of art that is so much a reflection of the times that it is made in, which to me anyways is a good measure of great art.

Great post here, I agree with everything you said.

[SBell]

Impressive collection or not, with an attitude like his it's going to be pretty off-putting to most collectors when they find out that most of us have collections that he doesn't deem worthy of consideration (I'm willing to be there are more dinosaur toy collectors than high-end model collectors, for example). Which, given the potentially limited market for a book like that already, and the presumably higher price a limited-run book could have...I'd rather buy the forthcoming Dinosaur Art book by Steve White.

Makes me sort of wonder how he got images for his book--I am guessing, based on his CQ pages, that he won't have everything he lists; and if there are no pictures it makes it a pretty dry read.

So everyone with rare models or excellent build-ups on the internet, maybe you'll be inadvertently famous! Although I'm hoping that permissions would be sought first.

[tyrantqueen]

Impressive collection or not, with an attitude like his it's going to be pretty off-putting to most collectors when they find out that most of us have collections that he doesn't deem worthy of consideration (I'm willing to be there are more dinosaur toy collectors than high-end model collectors, for example). Which, given the potentially limited market for a book like that already, and the presumably higher price a limited-run book could have...I'd rather buy the forthcoming Dinosaur Art book by Steve White.

Makes me sort of wonder how he got images for his book--I am guessing, based on his CQ pages, that he won't have everything he lists; and if there are no pictures it makes it a pretty dry read.

So everyone with rare models or excellent build-ups on the internet, maybe you'll be inadvertently famous! Although I'm hoping that permissions would be sought first.

Funnily enough, he does have toys in his collection (Battats, Kaiyodosaurs and Invictas) But I agree that books written by an author with a bad attitude are never fun to read.

[Seijun]

The author is the owner of Dinosauriana. I think he was a member of the old board. Mike Fredericks is also involved, who authored The Dinosaur Collectors Guide. I have been looking forward to this "book" and I have high hoped for it. It will actually be in cd form though, not a physical book (this what Mike told me).  Apparently there are a LOT of pictures and they could not find a publisher who would allow them to include all of the pictures in the book, so they chose to go with a cd instead.

I can sympathize with the author's aggressive opinion of dinosaur toys.  So many of them are so scientifically inaccurate, and there is no reason for them to be. Accurate reference material is readily available to anyone with internet access. CQ writes "Why shouldn't dinosaurs be presented as they really are? The revelations don't need to be enhanced at this point. This is the 21st century, not the 1950s where companies were sticking shark teeth in herbivorous dinosaurs because it made them more menacing. Toy companies – particularly in the US and Europe – don't know the difference or don't know what scale really means.  They're stuck with molds that are decades old. They watch each other instead of watching the science. They rely on paleontologists who are relying on other more accomplished workers (people we in the paleo industry have heard of). In some cases, the potential for accuracy was there decades ago but these companies didn't ask the right people in the biz. Now, many are trying to catch up with annual revisions of this or that model."
And I completely agree with all of that. Making a dinosaur accurate by current scientific standards IS NOT HARD, but for one reason or another, most companies are still struggling with it. I didn't get the impression that he was being snobbish at all, just frustrated. I mean, think about it. A toy CAN be as accurate as a resin model. Battats were, and Carnegie has very recently released a few models that are as accurate as resins, so we know it is possible! But the VAST MAJORITY of dinosaur toys are not as accurate as resins, not even close. IMO there is no excuse for that in this day and age. In the late 80's Kaiyodo was releasing vinyl models that were more accurate than most dinosaur toys released today.

Now, all that being said, I don't collect dinosaur toys for scientific accuracy. I love it when they are accurate, but if that is all I cared about I would be collecting resins instead. There are many positive qualities that dinosaur toys can posses that do not include accuracy. It used to bother me a lot that companies were not making accurate dinosaur figures, but I have come to the conclusion that most companies just don't care that much. They are after all, just toys. I think companies SHOULD make dinosaur toys as accurate as humanely possible, but I don't think its the end of the world if they don't. Growing up with inaccurate dinosaur toys isn't going to ruin a person in any way. Sure, it might create people who annoy us by thinking that all dinosaurs were giant featherless monsters with pronated hands, but that's not really hurting anyone.  If a kid grows up and still has a passion for dinosaurs, he will find out soon enough what dinosaurs actually looked like. Three years ago I thought all dinosaurs looked like the ones in JP movies (and could move their hands around like humans and had no feathers), but within a week or two of being a DTF member I discovered that I was wrong and that was the end of that. Dinosaur toys helped spark my interest in dinosaurs and keep that interest going. Yes, they gave me an inaccurate image of dinosaurs for 20 years, but it was not permanent.  If it wasn't for those toys I might not have become interested in dinosaurs at all and then I would definitely not know what they really looked like!

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Has anyone actually bought this yet ?  I haven't been able to find any info on ordering it anywhere and it apparently came out in November ?

BTW the author is also the owner of some other pages on dino documentaries and paleo-art and has fairly scathing comments about what he deems worthy there as well.  I do hope this book has less commentary and more pics and info.

I did see actual pics of a book version online as well :

[tyrantqueen]

Has anyone actually bought this yet ?  I haven't been able to find any info on ordering it anywhere and it apparently came out in November ?

BTW the author is also the owner of some other pages on dino documentaries and paleo-art and has fairly scathing comments about what he deems worthy there as well.  I do hope this book has less commentary and more pics and info.

I did see actual pics of a book version online as well :

I'm actually tempted to check this out, but the author's snotty attitude discourages me more and more every time I hear about it :X

The fact that he described himself as  "one of the few, true experts" on dinosaurs and their associated collectibles just smacks of arrogance to me.

[Simon]

The other problem with a book like this is that it starts becoming obsolete the day after its printed.  A website version with periodic updates would be preferable, but wouldn't earn the author any dough.  (As if this book will)  *yuck*

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

I like books such as this because they are easy to sit and flip through references.  I'm not sitting in front of a computer clicking away all the time..and I like the feel of a book as well you know ?

Some of the images I've seen in the teaser videos look to have some rare pics..pieces I haven't seen before or only once. That's reason enough for me to get it. I don't care much at all for the author or his opinions.  His harsh handling of some of my favorite dinosaur documentaries and art  put me off his sites already.  If you don't like it fine, just say so and leave it at that or just tell the facts.  He get's almost to borderline bashing..and I can't stand that.

[Simon]

Blade - I found very little - almost no - info on this guy online.  Perhaps a part of his acid delivery is just a muffled cry for attention?  "Hey, look at ME, I am important."  *chuckle*

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

It's quite possible. I'm thinking this book may not even be real the way it sounds...even with those pics. Easy enough to print out a faux cover and a couple pages.  I like Mike at PT and Martin no idea how they got involved with this fellow.  He even seems to use pics from Don's collection , with permission or not though I don't know.

[krentz]

 I do know the author and  he does have a great collection.  But he is not the snob everyone seems to be making him out to be.  This book has over 3000 pics in it.  No joke.  It documents the entire history of dinosaur replicas, and if he does pine for anything its the glory days of "the garage kit" when many artist, myself included, had a chance to make the toys we always wanted and offered them to a small group of like minded people that found them prior to the days of the internet.   In the 90's McFarlane toys pretty much killed that industry.  Very few people these days want to built a kit.  From some toy makers I talked to back in the 90's Safari also had some seriously aggressive tactics to keep other mass produced dinosaur toys...like Battat...from succeeding.  He has first hand knowledge about toy companies as well.   
Personally, I'm always impressed by his extreme knowledge of dinosaur toys every time I talk to him.  Seriously, give him a chance.

D

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

I do know the author and  he does have a great collection.  But he is not the snob everyone seems to be making him out to be.  This book has over 3000 pics in it.  No joke.  It documents the entire history of dinosaur replicas, and if he does pine for anything its the glory days of "the garage kit" when many artist, myself included, had a chance to make the toys we always wanted and offered them to a small group of like minded people that found them prior to the days of the internet.   In the 90's McFarlane toys pretty much killed that industry.  Very few people these days want to built a kit.  From some toy makers I talked to back in the 90's Safari also had some seriously aggressive tactics to keep other mass produced dinosaur toys...like Battat...from succeeding.  He has first hand knowledge about toy companies as well.   
Personally, I'm always impressed by his extreme knowledge of dinosaur toys every time I talk to him.  Seriously, give him a chance.

D

I'll give him a chance on the book...which I still can't find for sale or a release date on.  For you David, I would give him a chance. Though I have to say  I just didn't like the attitude I was hearing behind a lot of his comments. The JP toy line aside ( which is AWESOME ), his comments on some older dinosaur documentaries that I love and were ground breaking for their time..he seemed to judge everything by modern standards. Honestly if you can't share the love of nostalgia in a hobby with such history you might as well stick to just the facts..not rate everything from your own high horse is all I'm saying.

[Seijun]

I do know the author and  he does have a great collection.  But he is not the snob everyone seems to be making him out to be.  This book has over 3000 pics in it.  No joke.  It documents the entire history of dinosaur replicas, and if he does pine for anything its the glory days of "the garage kit" when many artist, myself included, had a chance to make the toys we always wanted and offered them to a small group of like minded people that found them prior to the days of the internet.   In the 90's McFarlane toys pretty much killed that industry.  Very few people these days want to built a kit.  From some toy makers I talked to back in the 90's Safari also had some seriously aggressive tactics to keep other mass produced dinosaur toys...like Battat...from succeeding.  He has first hand knowledge about toy companies as well.   
Personally, I'm always impressed by his extreme knowledge of dinosaur toys every time I talk to him.  Seriously, give him a chance.

D

Thank you David! I agree, I don't think this guy is as bad as everyone here is making him out to be. A lot of very serious and very knowledgeable collectors are not very well known with the newer and/or more mainstream collectors (I think most dino collectors here on the forum, myself included, fall into this category). I would trust the expertise of anyone whom Sean, Mike, and Martin chose to endorse, and especially considering that Robert is involved with the Dinosauriana project. I talked to Mike before the "book" was released and have been very excited to get my hands on it, because I have a lot of respect for everyone involved.  What Mike told me was that the book was only going to be released in CD form, because they could not find a publisher that would include all the pictures they wanted (or something to that effect). Maybe something has changed since then.

[sauroid]

does anyone have more info about this book? availability/sources, more sample pages, physical description of the book, etc.?