New Spinosaurus Restoration!

[suspsy]

This really puts the final Harryhausen on the JPIII Spino...

Literally everything about it has now been shown to be wrong: the skull, the neck, the arms, the body, the sail, the legs, and now the tail. The filmmakers could easily get away with retconning it into a prototype hybrid that was later rejected by Masrani in favour of the Indominus.

I passed on the news to CollectA. Their response?

Yes, we should consider updating our Spinosaurus for 2021.

[Doug Watson]

I mean, these exist:

Come on, that's not realistic at all, way too much shrink wrapping!

[Loon]

A new Spinosaurus from CollectA is definitely something I see happening soon. I mean, they were really quick to capitalize on the last makeover.

[Kapitaenosavrvs]

I love these Spinosaurus news, but since i talked about criticism: What the hell. My eyes hurt, when i see this. To a point this looks okay, but this looks nothing streamlined or plausible to cut it like that.

I mean, these exist:


And paper skeletals don't tend to be the best, it being in an action pose rather than a neutral one probably contributes to the weirdness as well

Oh yes! My first thought was Triturus cristatus. Because we had a lot of them in our Pond back in the Day. On the other Hand we have Netws (is that the plural?) with "sails" that do not have the Gap. Also i thought, that the Tail of a Newt does not have skeletal support on the sail.
I just meant my overall feel in this Spinosaurus Skeletal Recontruction Skinshapes. It seems to be a bit harsh and extreme. On the other Hand this whole Animal is extreme.

And i did not know about the Green Basilisk. A good point. How nice it looks. Tiny Spinosaurid

[Faelrin]

@Doug Watson Thanks for the response. I would certainly love to see your original with the tail modified. I was not aware about the flattened claws either on the feet. Thanks for pointing it out though. I will certainly need to check out the paper once I can afford to do so (as rent is coming up, and my dad got shorted on his income once again from being out of work, this is a bad week to do it), as that certainly sounds interesting. I also heard on reddit that they go into some depth regarding the updated posture as well.

[Doug Watson]

@Doug Watson Thanks for the response. I would certainly love to your original with the tail modified. I was not aware about the flattened claws either on the feet. Thanks for pointing it out though. I will certainly need to check out the paper once I can afford to do so (as rent is coming up, and my dad got shorted on his income once again from being out of work, this is a bad week to do it), as that certainly sounds interesting. I also heard on reddit that they go into some depth regarding the updated posture as well.

@Faelrin Sorry to hear about your Dad hope things get better for everyone soon. The information on the claws is in the 2014 paper, here is the text.
"The pedal unguals are proportionally large, long, low, and flat-bottomed (Fig. 2K and figs. S1 and S2), features that differ markedly from the deeper recurved unguals in other large theropods. The unguals in Spinosaurus are reminiscent of the flattened pedal unguals of shorebirds that do not perch (22). In addition, the toes of some shorebirds have fleshy lobes and interdigital webbing that enhance foot-propelled propulsion.
The lengthened digit I and flattened pedal unguals in Spinosaurus suggest that the foot may have been adapted to traversing soft substrates or webbed for paddling."

Also interesting to note in the new paper because of the increased size of the tail they have recalculated a change in the center of mass and illustrate a possible walking/standing pose that has the front limbs raised off of the ground.

[Doug Watson]

@Faelrin - just PMed you

[stargatedalek]

Folks joke, but basilisk styled sails would be decidedly unrealistic on a Spinosaurus. Basilisks are highly specialized, with extremely narrow vertebrae columns which don't widen along their length. Spinosaurus has columns which are not only larger proportionally but are shaped entirely differently.

Interesting that no one, the authors of the new (portion of) remains included, is really talking about the more complete vertebrae columns from the back. They widen towards the top, rather than narrowing as the 2014 publication proposed they did.

This is an anatomical feature only seen before in humped animals. Entirely distinct from basilisks, chameleons, and pelycosaurs. And yet they are sticking with that chameleon based reconstruction from before for the sail which bothers me greatly.

Frankly at this point I have no doubt that Spinosaurus had at least a thick, cetacean like dorsal structure, if not an actual hump, and that the columns should not be visible. So yet more points there for the Safari version!

Spoiler

[close]

[Tyto_Theropod]

I don't think I can say anything that hasn't been said by other people already, but: Wow.  Wow.  WOW.  And just when we thought Spinosaurus couldn't get any more weird and wonderful.  Maybe it's just me, but there's just something about the new material that makes the whole revised outline really 'click' and make sense as a living, breathing animal.

However, I'm afraid I have to criticise the comparisons being made with great crested newts and (on this thread) basilisks.  In both cases, only the males have the sails and tail frills.  In the case of great crested newts, the males only grow the crest during the breeding season.  Not to mention that there are plenty of entirely crestless newt species that seem to be just as well-adapted for an amphibious lifestyle.  As such I think it far more likely that both these species' crests have nothing to do with hydrodynamics and everything to do with courtship displays. 

Of course, whilst I think it more likely that Spinosaurus' tail evolved to make it a more efficient swimmer, it's also entirely possible that it too was primarily for display.  You could even speculate that perhaps, like the great crested newt, Spinosaurus was sexually dimorphic and we've only found the ornamented sex - or mistaken the non-ornamented one for a different species!   And I haven't even gone into stargatedalek's very valid point about the 'sail' actually being more of a hump.  So many possibilities!

By the way...

You can see it swimming in this video:

https://gramho.com/media/2298109348260708239

...I LOVE this video!  It's so well-done that if the animals in it weren't extinct you'd think it was live-action.  Looks like something you might see on Blue Planet.

[Shonisaurus]

I understand that the ideal is that a much more complete spinosaurus skeleton be discovered, that is to say that at least 80% or 85% including skull and tail be preserved to achieve a realistic reconstruction of that rare dinosaur in the toy market as it happened with the deinocheirus. Until more paleontological remains are found they are all mere scientific conjectures and therefore until no more complete remains of spinosaurus are discovered everything will be speculative.

[Bokisaurus]

What an amazing discovery!
Well just proved that this animal is weirder than anybody thought or imagined 😂
Now this would be a good excuse for CollectA to make a new version, hard to imagine they won't be the first to put out one again 👍🏼

I will have to add an update on my review now!

[Faelrin]

@Doug Watson Thanks for the response. I would certainly love to your original with the tail modified. I was not aware about the flattened claws either on the feet. Thanks for pointing it out though. I will certainly need to check out the paper once I can afford to do so (as rent is coming up, and my dad got shorted on his income once again from being out of work, this is a bad week to do it), as that certainly sounds interesting. I also heard on reddit that they go into some depth regarding the updated posture as well.

@Faelrin Sorry to hear about your Dad hope things get better for everyone soon. The information on the claws is in the 2014 paper, here is the text.
"The pedal unguals are proportionally large, long, low, and flat-bottomed (Fig. 2K and figs. S1 and S2), features that differ markedly from the deeper recurved unguals in other large theropods. The unguals in Spinosaurus are reminiscent of the flattened pedal unguals of shorebirds that do not perch (22). In addition, the toes of some shorebirds have fleshy lobes and interdigital webbing that enhance foot-propelled propulsion.
The lengthened digit I and flattened pedal unguals in Spinosaurus suggest that the foot may have been adapted to traversing soft substrates or webbed for paddling."

Also interesting to note in the new paper because of the increased size of the tail they have recalculated a change in the center of mass and illustrate a possible walking/standing pose that has the front limbs raised off of the ground.

@Doug Watson Thank you so much. It means a lot to me, and I'll be sure to pass your well wishes on to him and everyone else as well.

Also thank you for sharing that information. I do find it interesting they mention that it was likely it had webbed feet as far as back then, as if I correctly recall that was also before the footprints of a relative was found displaying webbed feet? I could be wrong though as I can't remember exactly what fossil or where it was found. I might have to do some digging around.

Regarding the information you shared about the updated posture, that certainly explains what I was wondering after seeing the new(?) posture of the model included with the new paper published yesterday. And while I think it certainly would be interesting to see a figure adapted with the new posture, but I do think the swimming pose is definitely preferable, especially with the addition of this new material (and maybe even more so after seeing it in action in that video on the Nat Geo article), and the suggestion it used these adaptions for active predation (against an unlikely Onchopristis or otherwise if I had to guess).

@suspsy I forgot to mention earlier that it would be exciting to see CollectA do a new figure based on this. Edit: Thanks for reaching out to them and sharing their response on this by the way. They were pretty quick with both Lisowicia and Bajadasaurus (and of course their Spinosaurus back in 2015, as well as the updated Deinocheirus).

@Tyto_Theropod I totally felt this way after the discovery of Sophie the Stegosaurus, and I've been feeling it again now with this. If only Stromer was still around to see what his discovery of this magnificent beast has led to, and how much closer we are to having a complete understanding of its skeleton after all this time, and in turn the animal that once lived on this earth.

[Dinoguy2]

Folks joke, but basilisk styled sails would be decidedly unrealistic on a Spinosaurus. Basilisks are highly specialized, with extremely narrow vertebrae columns which don't widen along their length. Spinosaurus has columns which are not only larger proportionally but are shaped entirely differently.

Interesting that no one, the authors of the new (portion of) remains included, is really talking about the more complete vertebrae columns from the back. They widen towards the top, rather than narrowing as the 2014 publication proposed they did.

This is an anatomical feature only seen before in humped animals. Entirely distinct from basilisks, chameleons, and pelycosaurs. And yet they are sticking with that chameleon based reconstruction from before for the sail which bothers me greatly.

Frankly at this point I have no doubt that Spinosaurus had at least a thick, cetacean like dorsal structure, if not an actual hump, and that the columns should not be visible. So yet more points there for the Safari version!

Spoiler

[close]

As you can see in these pics, the "columns" (neural spines) of the tail are quite different than those of the back - the dorsal neural spines look a like the bison, while the caudal ones look a lot like the basilisk. I'd expect a thick ridge (probably not a bison-like hump but who knows) on the back, but a basilisk-like sail structure on the tail.

I really look forward to the Releases the next Years. Don't be too harsh on the Companys. This is typical Internet behavior. It's so simple to criticise and theres more than one ppl involved in the process of new Figures.
I know, that a lot of ppl overseas kind of hate the Papo Spinosaurus, mostly because of its Price, plus shipping and a bot because of the differnet Paintjob. At least it seems like that. Before that everyone saw the sculpt and was like "OH YES!" The Downgrade of Essiens Paintjob was far worse to my opinion. But, this is an old story everyone already had enough.

I love these Spinosaurus news, but since i talked about criticism: What the hell. My eyes hurt, when i see this. To a point this looks okay, but this looks nothing streamlined or plausible to cut it like that. Was it just to show it better to the People? Should Doug do a new Spinosaurus for Safari, i have trust in him to make it wonderful and overall great. Also, it does not need to be this big. I kind of like these smaller sized CollectAs, eg. swimming Spinosaurus.



This was done really quick, just to show my Sadness

Check this out:
https://www.facebook.com/julius.csotonyi/posts/10156814383021396

[MLMjp]

Mark Witton comments about the "flexibility" of the tail:
https://twitter.com/markwitton/status/1255814025931296769?s=21

Can't say anything since I am no expert. I will leave that part to those who know more about the subject.

[Kapitaenosavrvs]

As you can see in these pics, the "columns" (neural spines) of the tail are quite different than those of the back - the dorsal neural spines look a like the bison, while the caudal ones look a lot like the basilisk. I'd expect a thick ridge (probably not a bison-like hump but who knows) on the back, but a basilisk-like sail structure on the tail.

This ist waht i feel, too. Maybe a Mix of it. I always think of, how a Hump would benefit living in the Water.
To me, the transistion from the Back to the Sail is thicker, but maybe gets a BIT slimmer to the top. We don't know (yet). In the End, Spinosaurus was fully Marine Animal, haha. On the other Hand, that does not make too much sense in Case of the whole Spinosaurid Family. But i often forget aboit the sheer amounts of time, that pass during Evolution.

Check this out:
https://www.facebook.com/julius.csotonyi/posts/10156814383021396

Uh, thank you. Of course it makes sense, but in the first moment it just felt a bit off. I have absolutely no Problem with a gap in general. Maybe it is just the overall look and my feelings to asthetics. Which is not really important, when it comes to accuracy, hehe.

Mark Witton comments about the "flexibility"of the tail:
https://twitter.com/markwitton/status/1255814025931296769?s=21
Can't say anything since I am no expert. I will leave that part to those who know more about the subject.

Thank you for that. The Discussion and the Shitstorms already began, reading all the stuff below that Post. Glad i don't have social Media.

[stargatedalek]

Mark Witton comments about the "flexibility"of the tail:
https://twitter.com/markwitton/status/1255814025931296769?s=21
Can't say anything since I am no expert. I will leave that part to those who know more about the subject.

He.. he does realize the only thing hes disproving here is the (bad) reconstruction accompanying the release of the paper and not that it was a swimming adaptation, right? Most fish don't exactly have particularly flexible tails either, all this means is that the tail likely didn't swim with a rippling motion like a crocodile.

[HD-man]

I'm loving the awesome new 3D Spino that's based on Bonadonna's awesome new 2D Spino. Not only does it look great (I especially like the croc-like skin texture & blue coloration), but it seems to match up well w/Naish's reconstruction in terms of having a longer tail & more upright posture.

[Kapitaenosavrvs]

H @HD-man This looks spectacular! I saw a Picture with the Forms for the Tail.

But is this the old one? Seems to lack the "new" Tail.

Also, i had the same Idea with postig a fine Pic. Looks like a Newt, hehe.

[Loon]

Ooh, I'd love a model based on that. EoFauna could knock it out of the park.

[HD-man]

H @HD-man This looks spectacular! I saw a Picture with the Forms for the Tail.

But is this the old one? Seems to lack the "new" Tail.

Nope, it's the new 1 (as indicated by the matching mural).

@Loon

Ooh, I'd love a model based on that. EoFauna could knock it out of the park.

Kapitaenosavrvs' post or my post?