Mesozoic Life Project - Kickstarter 2022

[Faelrin]

@Flaffy I honestly wonder that as well. Could it have been some naivete going into this? A lack of knowledge of their shady history beforehand (to be fair, most of the info out there, aside from the situation of the unauthorized copies being sold of the Dino Hazard Irritator, comes from Rebor in a few select threads on the DTF here)? A desperation to see this come to fruition? I don't want to assume anything though. Again I fully took that risk when I backed this in the first place, hoping things were worked out between them. That was of course long before I found out that there were still unauthorized copies of the Dino Hazard Irritator being sold on the factory owner's website. And of course, once there was a delay from the factory owner with no real info, it gave me red flags then and there. This situation here just confirmed that earlier haunch. Still unfortunate since I'm wishing him the best with all of this, and I still want to see it come to light too. But I don't want him being burned again by another shady factory (ignoring for a moment the fact I helped financially contribute to this project's funding).

The original backers comment regarding asking about why that particular factory was being used is deleted (unfortunately no way to know now what the actual question was), and if I recall correctly had mentioned that factory's shady history, but Kevin's response to such is here:

Of course, the Hong Kong factory where the Spinosaurus figures will be made will be the same one where the Dino Hazard brand Irritarors were made.

And since then it seems that many things have changed and their way of working improved to be much more efficient.

This was from the very first campaign that had failed to reach its goal in time.

In any case I'm at least relieved it wasn't all for naught, and that they are hopefully able to get it made with the remaining funds elsewhere now. I just hope it won't be rushed. I'll gladly take the delay as long as it means it can be successfully made, and retain quality in the process.

[postsaurischian]

    That Hong Kong factory should be taken off the streets!

[Rain]

For anyone not caught up with the drama surrounding the previous factory, it starts here, http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=9288.msg294295#msg294295.

I didn't back the project since it seemed a bit off but I hope Miguel can get everything sorted and bring you all your models.

[Faelrin]

@Rain There's some stuff in the Vitae thread too I think? Will have to go digging for it later.

[Mattyonyx]

@Rain There's some stuff in the Vitae thread too I think? Will have to go digging for it later.

The Vitae controversy (cheap version of the models made by the factory owner to blackmail Cheung Chung Tat) has never existed. I was told by Cheung Chung Tat himself that they were his idea because the original versions didn't sell well as expected.

[SidB]

If so, that's very unprofessional and unscrupulous. I wouldn't expect to see any more Vitae releases under that sort of regime, though anything's possible in such a wacko environment, I suppose.

[SpartanSquat]

So Vitae is pretty much dead?

[Leyster]

S @SidB as @Mattyonyx said, it was Cheung Chung Tat decision, I see nothing unprofessional in it. He was simply offering less fancy painted versions for a cheaper price. About the factory itself, they made a statement some time ago.

@RolandEden atm Cheung Chung Tat is focusin on other projects.

[Faelrin]

@Mattyonyx Interesting. That would make the claims Rebor made back then a tad bit sus (although it was always a good idea to take them with a grain of salt without more evidence of the situation). That's a bit of shame that he would result to doing that. Those models were quite good too. Unfortunate they didn't sell as well initially.

I'm curious, how did you manage to reach out to him though? Is he on social media somewhere? Even so, the fact the Vitae products (cheaper and otherwise), are for sale on that one particular website, in which the Dino Hazard Irritator still is (and likely still unauthorized copies, as the Aliexpress ones were), it does bring some of that into question, if those were authorized copies or not.

But regardless of that whole thing with Vitae, or any of the other claims Rebor has made in the past, the situation here with what they've done with the Mesozoic Life Project Spinosaurus figure does not help with this particular factory's track record, aside from what was previously done with the Dino Hazard Irritator as well (or still is).

[SidB]

S @SidB as @Mattyonyx said, it was Cheung Chung Tat decision, I see nothing unprofessional in it. He was simply offering less fancy painted versions for a cheaper price. About the factory itself, they made a statement some time ago.

@RolandEden atm Cheung Chung Tat is focusin on other projects.

The " his idea", L @Leyster , that I was supposing, was the factory story that Rebor referred to , not the sale of less expensive merchandise, which was quite okay as far as I'm concerned. It sounded like Cheung Chung Tat was behind the scheme, which was news to me, which is why I said 'if so". I'm glad to hear that he wasn't behind the make up of a gambling,etc. story.

[Leyster]

S @SidB well, me and @Mattyonyx spoke directly to him, so I'd trust his story more than anything Rebor would say. Even more because Hugo Cafasso supported the factory's version of the story about the Dino Hazard Irritator. Let's not forget that they reached quite quickly an agreement.

[Mattyonyx]

@Mattyonyx Interesting. That would make the claims Rebor made back then a tad bit sus (although it was always a good idea to take them with a grain of salt without more evidence of the situation). That's a bit of shame that he would result to doing that. Those models were quite good too. Unfortunate they didn't sell as well initially.

I'm curious, how did you manage to reach out to him though? Is he on social media somewhere? Even so, the fact the Vitae products (cheaper and otherwise), are for sale on that one particular website, in which the Dino Hazard Irritator still is (and likely still unauthorized copies, as the Aliexpress ones were), it does bring some of that into question, if those were authorized copies or not.

But regardless of that whole thing with Vitae, or any of the other claims Rebor has made in the past, the situation here with what they've done with the Mesozoic Life Project Spinosaurus figure does not help with this particular factory's track record, aside from what was previously done with the Dino Hazard Irritator as well (or still is).

We're longtime friends on Facebook.

Since Zheng is a co-owner of Vitae, any copy available on that site is authorized. About the Dino Hazard Irritator units, as mentioned by L @Leyster, the parties reached an agreement that involved Cheung Chung Tat himself as a mediator, although I don't know the exact terms, so I wouldn't worry so much about them.

About the manufacturer's track record, I'd like to remind you that it originated from this post, which was immediately believed to be true and helped build Zheng's bad reputation but was actually a big lie (I am not going to go any deeper into the reasons behind it, that's not the point I'm talking about).

as further "evidence", even newer models like Tiantaiosaurus had cheaper versions, as part of Vitae's strategy, and the alleged "knock-offs" were officially available as well.


Now, there are many cases of delays or disputes between companies and manufacturers, even with Eofauna or PNSO, they're just not as public as anything involving SH Factory. I'm not saying Zheng is an angel, mind you, it's just that it's become very easy to point the finger, and that's because of a false rumor and a case of misunderstanding well-explained by Hugo Cafasso himself.

Kevin will deal with the problem in the interest of the project and its backers.

[SidB]

Thanks, @Mattyonyx and L @Leyster  for this enlightenment. The "grain of salt" comment sure speaks volumes and also serves as a caution regarding tale bearing. I'm not immune to believing these rumors, so it's good that you rescue the reputation of Cheung Chung Tat and even Zheng.

[Faelrin]

L @Leyster and @Mattyonyx thanks for providing those threads. I either missed some of that earlier on or had forgotten with how much time had passed. Good to know the situation with the Dino Hazard figure was at least resolved in full, for the sale of all those unauthorized figures. If I had to guess much of that stuff posted by Rebor in the past could have simply come down to corporate libel, from being competitors. Though a shame retailers like Everything Dinosaur has taken their word as truth and avoided carrying carrying Vitae products as a result (although last I saw I think Dan's Dinosaurs has them, but they also don't carry any Rebor products since the original King T. rex figure). Or I wonder if it is a situation like with Schleich, which has been notorious for their strict competition with other brands. In any case I do wonder if it has hurt Vitae, since with less retailers, would mean less sales coming in, combined with their niche/indie status, and maybe led to those cheaper versions as a result.

Edit: Oh and in that second link L @Leyster sent, @Faras made a very interesting point that Rebor and Nanmu could be connected. They certainly have some factors in common, with the figures, and such as their advertising strategy of showing models in development long before coming to market (like the Therizinosaurus comes to mind). But well it's another thing to take with a grain of salt without more evidence, but still an interesting thing to ponder.

Oh I had he no idea he was on there. That explains that, then.

Right I also forgot Zheng was a co-owner. Then those would be fair game there.

Anyways back to the topic at hand it is unfortunate things did not work out there and it has set the project back. At the very least I am glad Kevin has been transparent about all of this. It has certainly given me faith to support him in his future endeavors.

[Stegotyranno420]

I checked the kickstarter page.
An update has been posted. But apparently they are using red WAX as the material.
From what I know, wax is not a very durable substance and PVC would be superior.
But he also said it was a test print in another sentence, so most likely I am just being paranoid

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mesozoiclifeproject/ramses-spinosaurus-figure-scale-1-35-mesozoic-life/posts/3712314

[Fembrogon]

I believe wax is a typical material used to cast molds before the final product is completed. There's no way the final model shipped to customers will be made of wax.

[SidB]

I believe wax is a typical material used to cast molds before the final product is completed. There's no way the final model shipped to customers will be made of wax.

If it was made of wax, my interest would start to wane.

[Halichoeres]

Yeah, a test cast in wax is perfectly ordinary as Fembrogon says.

S @SidB ba-dum-kshhhh!

[Fembrogon]

Man, I'm ashamed of myself for not catching that. Good one, S @SidB. 

[SidB]

Man, I'm ashamed of myself for not catching that. Good one, S @SidB. 

Sooo bad, it's good, I guess.