Mattel - New for 2023

[Bread]

@Faelrin can you explain that to the folks on social media? They might find this information interesting.
I personally like it, might take me a while to "get there" as I have resumed work this week, but I'm not completely impressed. I'm afraid that they might do collector playsets like this from now on.

I can't agree more.

I saw this set revealed on instagram and the top comments consisted of those who were disagreeing with the backlash regarding the price point. Clearly they do not see the bigger picture here.

@Faelrin thank you for this assessment and comparison. Really helps!

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Also, if I'm understanding this correctly, you pay 250 dollars (plus shipping) and best case scenario that gets you everything but if they only get around 5,000 backers you're out the same amount for just the fences and car? Seems a bit of a bum deal if they don't do as well as they hope on backers.

It's for the Gate and the car. A gate that is motorized, almost 2' tall with sound and lights.

i think it looks pretty good.  The price means I probably will not get it.  However I suspect, much like the Hasbro Jabba's Sail Barge, the price will skyrocket once production stops,....so it would be a good investment.  Maybe get 2, sell one in a couple of years and it will pay for the other one plus put cash in your pocket.

Exactly. I ordered two.

$250 is very steep for just the gate and car. The way they're going about this campaign is quite weird too. We need 5000 US Backers before international backers can join? Wouldn't that just be shooting yourself in the foot for the chances of the project taking off in the first place?

The smaller feet on Buck proves that these figures never needed those clown shoes in the first place. I really don't understand how there are still people that defend Mattel's awful design choices with poorly thought out strawman arguments.

Tons of print lines on the Buck rex head prototype... I wouldn't count on the final plastic release having this level of detail and/or teeth sharpness if that's the case.

I don't pretend to understand every decision they make, but we do know a lot of answers for many of these complaints already. Personally I couldn't make that gate and car myself for 250.00 and that's my bottom line. We have seen the SDCC exclusive Rex and Gennero pack from last year, the Ultimate Battle set Target carried last year, the new HC Brachio all command high prices. Costs from China are going up at the factories.

The feet issue is just Mattel learning and there is another reason as well. This set is likely going to adult collectors and not on store shelves for kids to ask for. Basically kids need the larger feet to more easily stand up their toys, we've discussed this many times here on the forum, big feet vs bases, wide hips, ect. 

The print lines I did notice. Must be a prototype of course.  If they do get that level out of it then it would obviously be worth it. Most of these repainted Buck Rexes I've seen for sale are in the 100s of dollars alone. If you used printed parts on it to make it look like a Bull/Buck then you have that cost added as well.  By that reasoning you looking at almost 300.00 for a Buck Rex unless the new Legacy set one is good enough. Mattel might make a Bull for the HC line if it gets that far but the color will be back to being not this well done. They are supposedly reissuing the HC Rexy, perhaps she will have the improved smaller feet?

@Blade-of-the-Moon I am pretty sure it isn't ideal for a lot of us to have to resell the items we don't want. I guarantee that majority of the buyers for this set will be due to the inclusion of the Buck/Bull. So, if a majority of said buyers decide to resell the other items on Ebay, for example, wouldn't that just be a huge surplus of the unwanted items making it even harder to part with them to at least make some money back?

This is just assumptions though, but they're based on what others have said afterall.

This set looks great, there is no doubt about that. But the justification for the price and basically a paywall for the Tyrannosaurus is absolutely ludicrous. They should have included better items to begin with.

Roland with mud decald and with a dart gun. (yes I know we mostly have this already but should be present)

Peter Ludlow

The actual captured gear that we see when the buck was being loaded up to be taken to the mainland...

Then again, I forget that this is mainly for the 30th anniversary, but odd how we are getting the Buck in the first place isn't it?

Also, if I'm understanding this correctly, you pay 250 dollars (plus shipping) and best case scenario that gets you everything but if they only get around 5,000 backers you're out the same amount for just the fences and car? Seems a bit of a bum deal if they don't do as well as they hope on backers.

Usually I like supporting or backing ideas like this, but I legit hope this one doesn't succeed. The paywall is ridiculous.

I'll just do a comparison for the hell of it. Hasbro had a haslab showcasing the
Rancor, which was a complete fail. A large sum of money was needed but with an awful selection and justification for the price they wanted. Mostly reuses to just fill in the price point. Not only that, but when there were new pieces, they were least desirable. As a result, a failed haslab project. Which I could see possibly happening to this one...

I didn't say it was ideal, but it's a solution to a potential problem.  These pieces will have value to others. I highly doubt there will be that many extra pieces.  Frankly the Buck Rex is nice but I really want the Gates first and foremost. It's a centerpiece to a collection and draws the eye. It has plenty of display options as well. I loved those motorized gates on the Kmart display for the vhs in 93'makes me think of how cool they were.

There is probably some cynical element to the pricing scheme, but probably also some real reflection of the cost of production. The more people order something, the cheaper it becomes to produce. Making 6000 of something doesn't cost 6× as much as making 1000 of something, maybe it's more like 3×.

You aren't wrong, but this is the kind of stuff that companies are supposed to factor into this crowdfunding situation.

Stretch goals are intended to be extra bonuses, not the actual meat and potatoes. But if you look at this thing without the stretch goals.....does anyone REALLY think this is $250 worth of product for a light-up gate and a Ford Explorer? No way is that a $250 product. They could release that on Target shelves for half that price, heck, for a third of that price.

The stretch goals are what people want, but Mattel is seriously mis-stepping here by placing EVERYTHING behind the stretch tiers. Even the fences!

The fact that they are including so many extras but the price is $250 regardless is showing this as a huge cash grab, to me. Even if you double the backers, the costs to Mattel are not going to decrease so substantially that ALL those bonuses would suddenly be cost effective.

At 5,000 or 10,000 backers, rest assured Mattel has done the number crunching to make this profitable. That's the whole point of doing it this way. But releasing such a bare-bones base tier is going to rub people the wrong way. This is a misuse of the stretch goal model if you ask me. You have to make the base tier exciting enough to entice backers, with the stretch goals  being the icing on the cake. This is why the Creative Beast Kickstarters do so well - people ALREADY want the basic products. This is why HasLab's Rancor failed - the base product just didn't justify the price (and in that case the stretch goals were unfathomably lackluster).

If everything shown had been available at a base tier, or if the stretch goals weren't so astoundingly high, I'd probably back this ASAP. But I'm not rolling the dice on potentially ONLY getting a gate and car.

And it feels pretty unlikely we'll see the paddock markers at all. It's gonna be a crawl to get this fully funded in 2 weeks with their current approach. Usually the bulk of funders happens shortly after the announcement with these things...this thing is going VERRRY slowly.

**EDIT** to also say - they could have done it more Creative Beast Kickstarter style and offered a base tier, with additional pricing for stretch goal items. Say, $100 for the gate and Explorer, and then when the bonuses are unlocked, they become add-ons, with an "all-in" at $250. That probably would have got them funded very quickly. But this approach, to put everything behind a stretch goal wall...very few folks want to risk ending up with a very expensive gate and nothing else.

I want the Gates. I saw the teaser for them and I wanted them. I had no idea what else was going to be tossed in at that time. The Explorer is even a bonus.  If this is how we get them I'm good with it. Everything else is icing. As I said I don't pretend to know exactly what they are thinking. No one else is leaping to make a set this good for this price though.  It's pretty much a guarantee Target wouldn't sell them.

So Collect Jurassic just posted a picture of Dr. Wu, and no caption. Might be safe to say that's who will be the SDCC exclusive this year? Hopefully whatever he's included in will be priced more reasonable then this $250 stuff. Last character other then like Dr. Harding, and a few other minor characters, and this is the one that makes the most sense to do after Hammond of course, since he was the geneticist behind bringing the dinosaurs back in the first place. It makes perfect sense to make a figure of him on the 30th anniversary.

Someone supposedly saw a picture of him that was leaked. No idea if it's HC or Legacy, The JP or JW version.  I myself hope he comes with a full lab set. There was a canceled one planned years ago.

@Faelrin can you explain that to the folks on social media? They might find this information interesting.
I personally like it, might take me a while to "get there" as I have resumed work this week, but I'm not completely impressed. I'm afraid that they might do collector playsets like this from now on.

I can't agree more.

I saw this set revealed on instagram and the top comments consisted of those who were disagreeing with the backlash regarding the price point. Clearly they do not see the bigger picture here.

@Faelrin thank you for this assessment and comparison. Really helps!

Here's the way I see it, yes it's more than what it would cost at retail. But since Target told Mattel "no" to playsets I don't see us getting them any other way if we want them? Recall they had some pretty nice ones planned for release before.   I also think should this be successful, maybe we will get an updated Visitor Center.

I know a lot of folks wanted TLW items. I think if Mattel is still doing this line, we will get them too. Probably on the anniversary of that film if not before.

[Faelrin]

Well I just noticed this FAQ.

https://creations.mattel.com/pages/jurassic-world-the-gates-crowdfund-faq

I still think the goals they are asking for are absurd when compared to the BotM ones, and I still think this could have been handled much better, especially regarding the stretch goals, and initial price tiers, but two key things I noticed:

When will I be charged?
No worries — you won't be charged unless the campaign reaches the minimum goal of 5,000 backers by July 26, 2023 at 11:59 PM PT. The pre-order amount will show as "pending" on your credit card. When the campaign succeeds, your payment will then be processed. If it doesn't succeed, your pre-order will be canceled, and the pending charge will disappear.

Do you offer a financing option?
The first 5,000 U.S.-based pre-orders can only be placed via credit card (American Express, Discover, MasterCard, Visa). Once the project has been funded by 5,000 U.S.-based backers, all subsequent backers of the project will have the option to finance their pre-orders. Through Paypal or Shop Pay you can split your purchase into installment payments with no additional, hidden, or late fees. Learn more about this option at Paypal. Learn more about this option at Shop Pay.

How does that work exactly? If I wouldn't have to pay full price right off the bat (assuming the initial goal is reached) then maybe I'd reconsider, particularly if the buck is closer to being unlocked. I really cannot afford to shell out this much all at once, not with a SDCC exclusive likely on the way, and saving up for both the HC Brachiosaurus, and the Cyberzoic kickstarter.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Well I just noticed this FAQ.

https://creations.mattel.com/pages/jurassic-world-the-gates-crowdfund-faq

I still think the goals they are asking for are absurd when compared to the BotM ones, and I still think this could have been handled much better, especially regarding the stretch goals, and initial price tiers, but two key things I noticed:

When will I be charged?
No worries — you won't be charged unless the campaign reaches the minimum goal of 5,000 backers by July 26, 2023 at 11:59 PM PT. The pre-order amount will show as "pending" on your credit card. When the campaign succeeds, your payment will then be processed. If it doesn't succeed, your pre-order will be canceled, and the pending charge will disappear.

Do you offer a financing option?
The first 5,000 U.S.-based pre-orders can only be placed via credit card (American Express, Discover, MasterCard, Visa). Once the project has been funded by 5,000 U.S.-based backers, all subsequent backers of the project will have the option to finance their pre-orders. Through Paypal or Shop Pay you can split your purchase into installment payments with no additional, hidden, or late fees. Learn more about this option at Paypal. Learn more about this option at Shop Pay.

How does that work exactly? If I wouldn't have to pay full price right off the bat (assuming the initial goal is reached) then maybe I'd reconsider, particularly if the buck is closer to being unlocked. I really cannot afford to shell out this much all at once, not with a SDCC exclusive likely on the way, and saving up for both the HC Brachiosaurus, and the Cyberzoic kickstarter.

If you put it on a credit card then the order will appear as a temporary hold for the amount, but no money will leave until the campaign is successful, if it's not then the charge will be canceled. For debit card users it will likely be a temporary hold of funds so it will seem to be a charge.

Now  I haven't tried the finance option via paypal or shop pay, so I'm not sure how that works, but it sounds like you will have a payment plan.

[Flaffy]

@Blade-of-the-Moon

Sure, for the mainline. The excuses falls apart when you apply them to the supposed premium collector's line though... Last I checked the HC was marketed towards adult collectors, and having them sold on store shelves is not a valid excuse just because a kid might ask for it. Moreover, it's been proven time and time again that oversized feet are not strictly necessary for stability (see Marco's customs and the most recent HC releases with more proportionate feet). People who still find ways to justify clown feet are choosing to willingly ignore this major point.

Re: Bull rex
I highly doubt the final production piece is going to look this good. It's a printed and hand painted prototype after all. I fully expect the following downgrades IF it were actually produced for this crowdfunder:
- blunted teeth
- simpler paint
- less sharp detail

[Carnoking]

I suppose if the gates and car are worth 250 dollars you can just consider everything else that you may or may not get a bonus.
Me? I just can't get behind it, even with all the bells and whistles. I love the JP gates, I don't have any version of them in my collection but 250 dollars for what is still just two toys is a lot to ask for.
Maybe if it was something like the Visitor's Center, or even if they reserved the HC Brach for this, I'd feel a bit less stingy but as is I am disinclined to acquiesce

[Flaffy]

Hammond Collection Carnotaurus leak

[Carnoking]

Obviously this is awesome because it's Carnotaurus! But also, new size range, that's interesting.

[MLMjp]

Yet again the FK version... Give us the Dominion one!

But yeah, they are finally introducing a medium large size range in the Hammond Collection!

C'mon Lost World Stegosaurus...

[Shane]

@Blade-of-the-Moon

Sure, for the mainline. The excuses falls apart when you apply them to the supposed premium collector's line though... Last I checked the HC was marketed towards adult collectors, and having them sold on store shelves is not a valid excuse just because a kid might ask for it. Moreover, it's been proven time and time again that oversized feet are not strictly necessary for stability (see Marco's customs and the most recent HC releases with more proportionate feet). People who still find ways to justify clown feet are choosing to willingly ignore this major point.

Re: Bull rex
I highly doubt the final production piece is going to look this good. It's a printed and hand painted prototype after all. I fully expect the following downgrades IF it were actually produced for this crowdfunder:
- blunted teeth
- simpler paint
- less sharp detail

Additionally, I don't really buy that Target wouldn't sell this. Target has shown time and again that they will devote large shelf real estate to JP items. You've got Colossal scale figures, large sauropods, big T-rexes from the main line to HC.

The HC Brachio pretty much sinks that whole theory - it's an expensive, complicated item, very large, geared to adults, and Target is selling it.

I just do not see $250 of value in the gates and Explorer alone, even with the lights, sounds and other electronics. It's just not a $250 piece.

The way they went about it is just, really, not the way to get people on board. Locking so much of what many will deem essential behind stretch goals just kills any incentive for me.

I would much rather, honestly, see the gate, fencing, and paddock markers as the main thing. Maybe with a dinosaur (not necessarily the buck rex, but something), and maybe one figure, Tim or Lex. Then stretch goals could be Explorer, the other human, the goat, little bells and whistles that make the purchase that much more palatable. But if all you're giving is the gate and car and expecting people to risk getting only that for $250...it's a no from me.

[Shane]

@EmperorDinobot I forgot to mention earlier, but if you or anyone wants to copy and paste my earlier post (or the shortened version I did on Andy's recent news video), then feel free to. I think more people should absolutely be made aware of what they are getting into with this crowdfund thing (assuming people read, most don't).

Here's the shortened version:

David Silva's BotM Tyrannosaur series kickstarter's initial goal was $185,000 (for 1/35 and 1/18 scale T. rex figures, in 4 colorations, and unpainted as well), Mattel's is $1,250,000 (the Gate and Explorer ONLY initially, unless all stretch goals get unlocked). David had 18 stretch goals total, with the highest priced at $530,000. Mattel only has 3 stretch goals total, with the third priced at $2,500,000. Mattel's campaign is locked to international users unless the initial funding goal of $1,250,000 (or 5,000 backers w/ $250 per person) is reached. I think more people need to be paying attention and drawing attention to this.

David's campaign also featured numerous pledge levels from as cheap as like $12 (post cards) and higher (such as figures), allowing folks from all income levels to participate, and was also opened to international backers from the start. One could mix and match addons (including unlocked stretch goals as they pleased). Mattel has it set to $250 or nothing. No choice for what one wants, it's either all or nothing, and again that assumes anything beyond the initial Gates and Explorer goal is unlocked. Only want the buck T. rex, or the signs, or the Gate? Well too bad, you get other stuff you might not want, or have the space for either.

The fact the buck T. rex is also paywalled behind $2,000,000 when most of the tooling has already been done does not sit well with me, and it shouldn't sit well with others either. The only thing done different here is arguably the glass eyes being improved, the smaller proportionate feet, and the new head sculpt (maybe neck too). People have been asking for a higher detailed buck T. rex for years now, and this is what they do for fans.

If all of this doesn't show the level of corporate greed, and how out of touch the folks behind the Mattel Creations crowdfunding thing is, then I don't know what will.

I think this is a pretty good summation of the way I feel about it. I just don't see how Mattel is justifying this beyond greed. Yes, the JP license costs need to factor in, but considering that BOTM is a smaller company, likely working with smaller qtys of product (which means more money/higher costs), and had to invest in all new tooling costs for these items, and is also working without being the manufacturing juggernaut that Mattel is...I'm just not seeing where all that money is going.

But I've really hammered my thoughts home by this point, so I'll just let folks do as they please. It's just hard not to be disappointed, when there's a way this could have really been exciting.

[Faelrin]

On one hand, I still feel like the original 2018 figure is superior if only because it has the more accurate arm anatomy, compared with the FK design, but this does look good for what is a leak anyways. I'm sure the final figure should look better then what is shown here. About time we get a bigger size class too as this hopefully opens the doors to an adult TLW Stegosaurus, and the BaBR/Dominion Allosaurus. I think it makes sense to start with the FK Carnotaurus since it was the first, but hopefully they can do a Dominion Demon styled one eventually, maybe Toro as well. I still would like to see the Dominion Parasaurolophus design get a HC figure too (the one with the blue stripes preferably), with hopefully a revised head sculpt. Both the Dominion Demon Carnotaurus, and Parasaurolophus only really got smaller figures that didn't really do their designs justice, more so the latter. The Carnotaurus figure is strangely meant to represent the juvenile in the film, yet it has the broken horn of the adult (and also lacks the red coloration on the face, but at least it sort of pays a nice homage to Kenner's original figure the way it is).

[Lynx]

Why does Mattel need a crowdfunder?

[Shane]

Why does Mattel need a crowdfunder?

This is something Mattel and other large brands like Hasbro have done with large scale, ambitious projects that would be unlikely to succeed at retail.

The idea is that the amount of investment and resources would only be "worth it" to produce if they had enough dedicated direct buyers.

Hasbro's Haslab has had some great successes (X-Men Sentinel, Jabba's Sail Barge, Mandalorian's Razor Crest, GI Joe Classified Hiss Tank, and the currently running GI Joe Dragonfly, just to name a few), but they've also had some pretty blatant failures (Star Wars Black Series Rancor, Marvel Legend's Ghost Rider Muscle Car, Cookie Monster, Reva's Lightsaber).

It's a gamble, but a lot of it has to do ultimately with HOW the campaign is run. Some were just bad ideas (Reva's Lightsaber wasn't special or unique enough to justify a Haslab campaign, it should have just been a normal release, Hasbro barely promoted it) while others were good ideas handled poorly (The Rancor and Ghost Rider Muscle Car felt like good ideas but the cost scared people, and the stretch goals, especially in the case of the Rancor, seemed very lackluster). Some are just moonshots that could go either way (Cookie Monster, we hardly knew ye).

It's a fine line to walk with stretch goals. You want them to be good and exciting (to avoid a Rancor situation) but not SO good and exciting that people don't feel there is enough value in the initial offering (what we're seeing with the JP gate).

It's a novel solution to get really big idea projects to fans, but the way it's been handled thus far has been hit or miss.

[Lynx]

I feel like this is a huge miss. Nobody wants to pay 2,000+ (just from what I'm hearing) for a single Rex that you can get customized for cheaper, except the most dedicated collectors

[Lynx]

It makes a lot more sense with that context though, I had no idea large companies did this.

[Bread]

Just looked at the current progress of the project, 662 have funded in the first day... Seems like a loss to me already.

Although this is with the mindset that it would be somewhat like the BOTM series.

[Carnoking]

You would think a big brand like Jurassic with the production bill footed by one of the largest toy manufacturers would need no help when compared to the more niche interest of BotM

[Gwangi]

Hammond Collection Carnotaurus leak

Now this is worth getting excited over. I've been wanting an HC Carnotaurus since the line began. Should have skipped the elbow articulation and made the arms smaller though.

[stargatedalek]

You would think a big brand like Jurassic with the production bill footed by one of the largest toy manufacturers would need no help when compared to the more niche interest of BotM

You'd think that, but no retailer would ever be willing to stock this set, and larger companies like Mattel are a lot more reliant on them. It's easy to forget that as large as they are, Mattel currently still sits far smaller than Hasbro, and are largely at the mercy of big box stores.