Book recommendations

[tyrantqueen]

I don't think it's suitable for casual readers. Waaaaay too techincal.

[HD-man]

Dinosaurs the most complete up to date encyclopedia:



This book probably needs to introduction. As many people have noted before, it is a great, thorough, and fantastically illustrated book, as should be expected when you know who wrote it. Covering all of dinosauria, it hits all the points you would expect, - history of paleontology, how evolution works, how fossils form, etc - but also makes a commendable effort to explain cladistics in a way that a layman would be able to understand. It is clearly written for a general audience, and could easily be read by a child, but also includes enough facts and information to be interesting for older more informed paleo-aficionados. The only downside is that it IS from 2007, almost 10 years old now, and as such has a few outdated sections(the megalosaur section in particular is completely bunkum). All in all a great book for people of all ages, but is also slightly out of date. 8/10

No offense, but there are 2 major problems w/the above quote.

1) It isn't really fair to criticize a paleo book for becoming outdated AFTER being published. Holtz's book was probably the most up-to-date dino book at the time of publication. It's just that we're discovering new things all the time (I.e. "Science Marches On": http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceMarchesOn ). According to the above quote, no paleo book can get a 10/10 (including Mammoths, Sabertooths, and Hominids: 65 Million Years of Mammalian Evolution in Europe, which is even older than Holtz's book).

2) Holtz keeps updates on "Supplementary Information for Holtz's Dinosaurs" ( http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/dinoappendix/ ) when parts of his book become outdated. In other words, Holtz's book will always be up-to-date.

[Loxodon]

No offense, but there are 2 major problems w/the above quote.

None taken.

1) It isn't really fair to criticize a paleo book for becoming outdated AFTER being published. Holtz's book was probably the most up-to-date dino book at the time of publication. It's just that we're discovering new things all the time (I.e. "Science Marches On": http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceMarchesOn ). According to the above quote, no paleo book can get a 10/10 (including Mammoths, Sabertooths, and Hominids: 65 Million Years of Mammalian Evolution in Europe, which is even older than Holtz's book).

It was not my intention to criticize the book objectively as much as state how worthwhile a purchase it is today. Obviously the book cannot be blamed for not including discoveries made since its release, but when it comes to actually recommending the book today, it is still important to note what is and is not outdated. Most of the book holds up tremendously well, but the aspects that don't should still be noted when making a recommendation. That is not an actual criticism of the quality of the book, nor is the score a rating of the book itself. The score, and by extension the entire review, was purely meant to indicate how worthwhile it is to get. For instance, I rated Mammoths, Sabertooths, and Hominids: 65 Million Years of Mammalian Evolution in Europe 10/10 not because I think it is objectively one of the best books out there - there are dozens of issues with it and on a purely quality basis Holtz's book is probably better - but rather because it provides information that is almost impossible to get elsewhere. Holtz's book got an 8/10 because it is a well-written, beautifully illustrated and comprehensive book, but still with a few outdated aspects, ones which I felt do need to be taken into account when considering whether to purchase it.

2) Holtz keeps updates on "Supplementary Information for Holtz's Dinosaurs" ( http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/dinoappendix/ ) when parts of his book become outdated. In other words, Holtz's book will always be up-to-date.

I am aware of the website. Showing that level of dedication is both commendable and darn impressive, but I don't think it should factor into a recommendation of the book itself.

[HD-man]

It was not my intention to criticize the book objectively as much as state how worthwhile a purchase it is today.

I can understand that. Sometimes I forget that some reviewers are more subjective than others.

I am aware of the website. Showing that level of dedication is both commendable and darn impressive, but I don't think it should factor into a recommendation of the book itself.

That's the part that confuses me. You rated Holtz's book 8/10 b/c you felt its "few outdated aspects [needed] to be taken into account when considering whether to purchase it", yet you "don't think [Holtz's website] should factor into a recommendation of the book itself." Again, no offense, but that doesn't make sense to me given that 1) the website cancels out said aspects & makes the book up-to-date, & 2) the website is literally part of the book (as pointed out on page 366: https://books.google.com/books?id=YuC0fRUwnUgC&pg=PA366&dq=%22dinosaur+genus+list%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhxMPbkY7KAhXGLSYKHVM5DScQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22dinosaur%20genus%20list%22&f=false ). Sorry if I come off as nit-picky. I'm just really curious.

[Loxodon]

I am aware of the website. Showing that level of dedication is both commendable and darn impressive, but I don't think it should factor into a recommendation of the book itself.

That's the part that confuses me. You rated Holtz's book 8/10 b/c you felt its "few outdated aspects [needed] to be taken into account when considering whether to purchase it", yet you "don't think [Holtz's website] should factor into a recommendation of the book itself." Again, no offense, but that doesn't make sense to me given that 1) the website cancels out said aspects & makes the book up-to-date, & 2) the website is literally part of the book (as pointed out on page 366: https://books.google.com/books?id=YuC0fRUwnUgC&pg=PA366&dq=%22dinosaur+genus+list%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhxMPbkY7KAhXGLSYKHVM5DScQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22dinosaur%20genus%20list%22&f=false ). Sorry if I come off as nit-picky. I'm just really curious.

I suppose this part is purely down to opinion, but the way I see it, supplementary material online, while very nice and useful, is still separate from the book itself. Not only is it not always certain that you have access to the internet while reading said book, but most people won't be constantly checking the website to make sure that what they are reading is up to date. Yes, if they go to the site they can see all the changes since, but you would already have to be aware that something had changed in order to motivate you to go look it up in the first place. If I am reading a part of the book on a subject I am relatively unfamiliar with, say basal Ornithischians, I won't be constantly checking the website to verify, nor will, I suspect, the vast majority of other people. For that reason I could quite easily read something which is no longer correct and go away believing it. Hardly the end of the world, but it does mean that simply providing a supplementary website does not in and of itself influence my view of the actual book, even if it does refer you to the site.

[Halichoeres]

I agree that Holtz's ongoing supplement is an excellent idea that more books should incorporate. But one important piece of it, the compendium of valid genera and synonymies, has a broken link. An archived version is available, but it's several years old.

[HD-man]

I suppose this part is purely down to opinion, but the way I see it, supplementary material online, while very nice and useful, is still separate from the book itself. Not only is it not always certain that you have access to the internet while reading said book, but most people won't be constantly checking the website to make sure that what they are reading is up to date. Yes, if they go to the site they can see all the changes since, but you would already have to be aware that something had changed in order to motivate you to go look it up in the first place. If I am reading a part of the book on a subject I am relatively unfamiliar with, say basal Ornithischians, I won't be constantly checking the website to verify, nor will, I suspect, the vast majority of other people. For that reason I could quite easily read something which is no longer correct and go away believing it. Hardly the end of the world, but it does mean that simply providing a supplementary website does not in and of itself influence my view of the actual book, even if it does refer you to the site.

I get what you're saying (although I'd argue that [1] a given online supplement must be considered part of a given book if directly referred to in said book, & [2] even if you don't have internet access, your local library does, but I digress).

I agree that Holtz's ongoing supplement is an excellent idea that more books should incorporate.

To add to the above quote, I'd argue that all the best post-2000 popular dino books have online supplements (E.g. Gardom/Milner's The Natural History Museum Book of Dinosaurs, Holtz's Dinosaurs, Abramson et al.'s Inside Dinosaurs, etc).

But one important piece of it, the compendium of valid genera and synonymies, has a broken link. An archived version is available, but it's several years old.

I've been wondering about that. What's the deal w/that broken link? When will it be fixed? At least the archived version isn't too old (2012).

[Newt]

Plants in Mesozoic Time: Morphological Innovations, Phylogeny, Ecosystems. 2010. Edited by Carole T. Gee.

This books is a Festschrift (collection of writings in honor of a prominent person in the field) for paleobotanist Ted Delevoryas. As such, it is not a textbook or primer, but instead a collection of technical papers by Delevoryas' colleagues and academic offspring. While some of the papers contain overviews of the topics they treat, you do need some botanical knowledge beforehand.

That said, it's full of great stuff about how these plants (mainly seed plants - the volume has little to say about pteridophytes and virtually nothing about bryophytes) are related to one another, what sort of climates and communities they lived in, and so on. It also gives interesting insights into the science of paleobotany - in other words, how we know what we know, and what we still are unsure of.

In short: Not for the botanical novice, but well worth reading.

[HD-man]

Quoting Barrett ( http://newviewsonoldbones.blogspot.com/2015/12/farewell-2015.html ):

Another major push at public outreach was the completion of a new official NHM dinosaur book, which I co-authored with Darren Naish: Darren did most of the heavy lifting, however, and deserves the lion's share of the credit. This new title should hit the bookshelves in the next couple of months and will boast some new artworks by Bob Nicholls.

Given that my #1 all-time favorite book is a NHM dino book ( https://www.amazon.com/review/R2URWS93D4PO4C/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8 ), this is very exciting for me!

[Kelceyhill]

Just wrote a new fiction dinosaur/paleo novel. Would love anyone who loves dinosaurs as much as me to check it out. Can check out the website www.descendantsofthedragonbook.com.  Any feedback or emails would be awesome!

[HD-man]

Quoting Barrett ( http://newviewsonoldbones.blogspot.com/2015/12/farewell-2015.html ):

Another major push at public outreach was the completion of a new official NHM dinosaur book, which I co-authored with Darren Naish: Darren did most of the heavy lifting, however, and deserves the lion's share of the credit. This new title should hit the bookshelves in the next couple of months and will boast some new artworks by Bob Nicholls.

Given that my #1 all-time favorite book is a NHM dino book ( https://www.amazon.com/review/R2URWS93D4PO4C/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8 ), this is very exciting for me!

The new book is Naish/Barrett's Dinosaurs: How They Lived and Evolved ( http://www.amazon.com/Dinosaurs-How-They-Lived-Evolved/dp/1588345823 ) & I can't wait!

[Paleona]

Hello everyone, I have a bit of a different request.  Can anyone recommend any dinosaur themed books that feature lovely stylized illustrations, like you would find in a storybook? 

I'm well aware of art books such as Dinosaur Art: The World's Greatest Paleoart, but I'm hoping to find something a bit more artistic, and less hyper-realistic.  I'd love a book that holds up accuracy-wise, too, but I know it's a long shot, lol.    The closest I've found to what I'm searching for, are the Dinosaur Discovery books by William Stout- I really love the look of his ink and watercolor illustrations.  There's a cheap one (New Dinosaur Discoveries A-Z) aimed at kids that I'm thinking of picking up, even if some of the anatomy does look a little wonky... the examples I've found online still look pretty lovely:

here and here

Recently I've been looking at some older "retro" dinosaur artwork in children's books, and it's got me thinking how that sort of artistic flair has been lost in modern kids books.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Newt]

Heh, I expect to see Bill Stout this weekend at Wonderfest...

Richard Delgado's Age of Reptiles comic springs to mind. And of course, James Gurney's Dinotopia, which actually is a storybook. I can't think of any informational recent dinosaur books with that sort of illustration, though.  Modern paleoart has taken a hard turn towards hyper-detailed pseudophotography, at the expense of much freshness and charm.

[Paleona]

While photo-realism is impressive, it's honestly not my favorite art form.  Sure, it's important in trying to get an accurate picture of how these animals looked, but... yeah, I miss the charm. 

I've been a fan of Dinotopia since I was a little girl!  James Gurney is a fantastic artist, and I hope we get to see another addition to the series sometime.  I'll have to check out Age of Reptiles- I have heard good things about it in the past.

Have fun at Wonderfest!

[HD-man]

Hello everyone, I have a bit of a different request.  Can anyone recommend any dinosaur themed books that feature lovely stylized illustrations, like you would find in a storybook?

They're not story books per se, but they are stylized.

Conway et al.'s All Yesterdays: Unique and Speculative Views of Dinosaurs and Other Prehistoric Animals: http://www.amazon.com/All-Yesterdays-Speculative-Dinosaurs-Prehistoric/dp/1291177124

White's Dinosaur Hunter: The Ultimate Guide to the Biggest Game: http://www.amazon.com/Dinosaur-Hunter-Ultimate-Guide-Biggest/dp/1472812824

[Paleona]

Hello everyone, I have a bit of a different request.  Can anyone recommend any dinosaur themed books that feature lovely stylized illustrations, like you would find in a storybook?

They're not story books per se, but they are stylized.

Conway et al.'s All Yesterdays: Unique and Speculative Views of Dinosaurs and Other Prehistoric Animals: http://www.amazon.com/All-Yesterdays-Speculative-Dinosaurs-Prehistoric/dp/1291177124

White's Dinosaur Hunter: The Ultimate Guide to the Biggest Game: http://amzn.to/1X1s8Sm

Thanks for the suggestions~  I've looked into All Yesterdays in the past, but I always feel undecided about it.  I think it's a book I would like to see in person before actually purchasing it.  Also, I lol'd a little, seeing the Papo running rex on the cover of the other book you suggested... xD

[Newt]

Hadrosaurs, edited by David Eberth and David Evans, is a compendium of papers on all aspects of hadrosauroid biology. It is a festschrift in honor of David Weishampel, and includes an excellent overview/intro by him and papers by numerous authors on anatomy, phylogeny, growth, and biogeography of these beasts. A must for anyone interested in ornithopods.

[HD-man]

Thanks for the suggestions~  I've looked into All Yesterdays in the past, but I always feel undecided about it.  I think it's a book I would like to see in person before actually purchasing it.  Also, I lol'd a little, seeing the Papo running rex on the cover of the other book you suggested... xD

Anytime!

Don't worry, the interior art is MUCH better than the cover art. You can see some of the interior art for both books in the following links. I haven't read either book in its entirety, but I like what I have read & think you would to. Plus, said books are probably you're best bet in terms of paleoart that's both accurate & stylized.

Conway: http://www.johnconway.co/all%20yesterdays

Kosemen (They're on the bottom): http://cmkosemen.com/books

White: http://sharkeytrike.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=%2F&q=book

[Paleona]

I found something wonderful!  A storybook with accurately depicted dinosaurs!

Neffy and the Feathered Dinosaurs by Joe Lillington !  Released October 11th.   
Or, if you're in the UK, it's available now: http://flyingeyebooks.com/shop/neffy-and-the-feathered-dinosaurs/

Check out the author's Twitter post, with some previews: https://twitter.com/LillingtonJoe/status/729997696535277572 <3

[pako]

I have been through this thread but still have a question for you guys, which book do you recommend as the best encyclopedia about dinosaurs ?

I would like to have the most informations possible about the most dinosaurs species possible with good drawings and pictures of fossiles...

Thanks for your help!