Okay, so how are y'all at identifying turtles and/or salamanders?

[brontosauruschuck]

This post is kind of a sequel to the one where I asked y'all to identify a fish that turned out to be a weather loach.



So the weather loach I was able to save is a complete nut. He loves to float upside down in the water for long periods of time. I thought for sure he died in front of my eyes this morning. The temperature in the tank hovers around 20 and stays fairly consistent. It's hard to know if your pet is having an issue when they are naturally going to behave strangely.

Also, I know there are too many fish in that tank! My plan is to put the goldfish and loach in their own, larger, indoor pond and let the axolotl have the tank all for himself. (I have a bad habit of using male pronouns toward animals that I don't know the sex of, I've learned.)








So today my coworker and I filled two large tubs with clean water and set them up with bricks and rocks so the turtles would have somewhere to get out of the water, and then we went around to each classroom at my school and took out the turtles. We stopped counting after 40. There were a lot of turtles. I know one of you warned me about keeping turtles together, but their only other option is to stay in those little chintzy temporary deals they give you at the pet shop. None of them seemed too hungry, which is good I suppose. A lot of them were in filthy water and we tried to give them a bit of a bath before we changed them out. The attitude of a turtle isn't easy to gauge, but they surely are a lot happier to be in enough water to swim in.




Okay, so here's where the actual identification comes in. I think this guy might be a Chinese pond turtle (Mauremys reevesii).




These little guys with the long tails, I have no idea.




I also found this salamander while I was searching for turtles. I don't know what he is. I'm guessing he eats bloodworms, so now I have the fun task of trying to figure out where to buy those in China.



I think this poor guy has some manner of eye infection. His eyes bulge out, one of them especially so. Anyone know what to do about that?



Here's a cute little guy who decided to hang on to a water lily and back-float. Thanks for your help with all this. We only found one dead turtle. This whole thing has been a nightmare and part of me wishes I'd just quit like I threatened to, but the boss made it clear she would rather see me leave and watch the pets die than do anything to help them. I think they just don't understand the concept of looking after a pet in the western sense.

[Cretaceous Crab]

Sent you a PM.

[stargatedalek]

Red-eared sliders tend to be calm enough that on most occasions you can mix them, just be sure to always watch for fighting and separate any repeat aggressors. If you get the chance separate the sick one out by itself and the babies from the other adults, but aside from that they should do fine.

That is indeed a Reeve's Turtle (didn't know they were also called Chinese Pond Turtles); an endangered species.

The two with the long tails could be big-headed turtles, another endangered species.

I don't know about the salamander or eye infection. Looks vaguely like a fire bellied newt, but that's native to Japan so I doubt it.

The yellow turtle with the swirling patterns looks like a map turtle of one kind or another, but they are native to the Americas so again that's probably incorrect.

If you still want to quit I recommend leaving and taking the animals with you. Someone at this school has taken several endangered species from the wild and the faculty advocated abusing them, even in China that should be enough for something to be done. Or at least to serve as a defense for you taking them.

[Flaffy]

The green, dark green and yellowish green (including the ones with the fancy swirly patterns) ones are all Red Ear Sliders, look for the red spot behind the eye. The ones with the painted shells are also red ear sliders. Probably a good opportunity to teach the kids about animal cruelty, and that the painting the shells of the poor babies is very harmful to the animals.

The oval shaped brown/black ones with the yellow markings on their necks are all Chinese Pond turtles (Reeves turtles), including the small ones with the long tails.
While endangered in the wild, they are VERY commonly captive bred, especially in Asia. The ones you see here are most likely captive bred individuals, as going out to the wild to capture such common turtles that don't sell for a lot (babies tend to go for ~$5-6 usd) is likely not worth the effort.

The amphibian is likely a Chinese fire belly newt. Common in the asian pet trade. Frozen blood worms can be found at local aquariums, for around a dollar or two you'll get a whole pack of them.
The axolotl and turtles would probably enjoy some blood worms too.


For the eye infection, I would recommend getting povidone iodine solution from your local pet shops. But alternative local brands like 龜精靈 works as well, and are very easily found. (should be in liquid form)



I recommend separating the babies from the more mature individuals. And separate the Reeve's from the Red Ears. Getting a UV lamp is essential healthy and proper shell growth (prevents deformities later on in life). A basking lamp is also highly recommended.

[Flaffy]

If you still want to quit I recommend leaving and taking the animals with you. Someone at this school has taken several endangered species from the wild and the faculty advocated abusing them, even in China that should be enough for something to be done. Or at least to serve as a defense for you taking them.

I doubt anything can be done. Animal cruelty tends to be overlooked a lot. Especially with common pets like goldfish, turtles and rodents. People treat them like playthings rather than living, breathing creatures.

[DinoToyForum]

These animal ID topics strike me as equally appropriate for the Animal Toy Forum as for the DTF, and there are some knowledgeable members over there that do not frequent DTF and would be glad to help. There's even a section dedicated to topics of this kind: http://animaltoyforum.com/index.php?board=13.0

[brontosauruschuck]

Thank you all very much! I don't have time to address you all individually right now, but I did want to ask if this UV light would work. I bought it for my Opuntia and I don't need it anymore.

[Lanthanotus]

LED lights are not a good option for reptiles. Reptile eyes see different from ours and can distinguish the several colors of the single bulbs while for our eyes the light color will be simple "white" (daylight, warm white, cool daylight, whatever the description says. Appropriate light for reptile husbandry is made up from high intensity discharge lamps and fluorescent tubes.

[Lanthanotus]

I have to add....a big thanks to you for taking care of all those poor little buggers.
While UV light is generally mandatory for keeping diurnal reptiles at a modern and species appropriate standard, it is completly possible to keep them healthy without. A simple light bulb (the cheap wolfram or halogen ones) of appropriate wattage may be much more easily available than what I mentioned before and supplies the turtles with a place to sun and dry up.

[brontosauruschuck]

Fire-bellied newts, pretty common in the pet trade. Make sure not to keep them with the turtles, as the turtles will nip at them and may attempt to eat them.

No problem. He has his own aquarium.

If you can locate some, several reptile pet companies sell some form of turtle "eye rinse," as this is a common issue with captive aquatic turtles (usually result of poor husbandry.

I'm going to try to get some. We have quarantined the turtle. I think there might be others though. It's a little difficult to tell when you have 40 odd baby turtles partying together.

At first I just thought those were painted rocks, but at closer look, I realized those are actual turtles with their shells painted! Try to scrub that paint off to the best of your ability. In the least, it inhibits their ability to absorb heat & UV.

I'm not sure how exactly the decals were attached. The look like they were printed out and then applied to the turtles. Some of the poor guys even have drips on their noses and feet where the decal ran over. I'm kind of hoping they will fall off on their own, but I can try to scrub them off. It's tricky because I don't know what they are and obviously I don't want to spray them with household cleaner or whatever.

The most immediate course of action is to get the turtles and newt on some form of heat. This can help with keeping their core body temperatures stable, and help their immune systems. Also, if you are able, take the turtles outside and give them access to direct sun for around 30-60 minutes or so.

It's pretty cold outside, so I don't think they should go out, but we have them set up next to a window so they can get sun from that. I ordered some of those heating rods.

Forgive me if you mentioned it earlier, but am I to understand this is a school, or is it a pet store or something?

It's a school. I work at a kindergarten in China, and a couple of weeks ago they sent out a message asking each of our 300+ students to bring an animal in to school. Don't get me started on how stupid and cruel this was.

If you ave any questions, feel free to ask. I worked in pet stores for over 10 yrs, and am a reptile nut at heart. I'm not an expert on any particular species, but I can help you with most basic care issues.

Great! I'm sure I'll have plenty. The next order of business is to rescue the birds.

Red-eared sliders tend to be calm enough that on most occasions you can mix them, just be sure to always watch for fighting and separate any repeat aggressors. If you get the chance separate the sick one out by itself and the babies from the other adults, but aside from that they should do fine.

Done and done. So far the turtles have all lived together pretty well, although they have no sense of personal space and are more than happy to climb on top of each other. I'm guessing that's normal for them.

That is indeed a Reeve's Turtle (didn't know they were also called Chinese Pond Turtles); an endangered species.

The two with the long tails could be big-headed turtles, another endangered species.

I don't know about the salamander or eye infection. Looks vaguely like a fire bellied newt, but that's native to Japan so I doubt it.

Others seem to think the little guys are also Reeve's Turtles. Also, everyone has agreed that it's a fire belly.

The yellow turtle with the swirling patterns looks like a map turtle of one kind or another, but they are native to the Americas so again that's probably incorrect.

Which one? I think some of the red-ears have kind of light coloration. Are you looking at those?

If you still want to quit I recommend leaving and taking the animals with you. Someone at this school has taken several endangered species from the wild and the faculty advocated abusing them, even in China that should be enough for something to be done. Or at least to serve as a defense for you taking them.

I think if I took them, the school would be happy to be rid of them. Not sure what I'd do with them, since I'm not legally allowed to stay in China for more than two weeks after my contract ends. If I took them the school would probably be happy to be rid of them. When I went from classroom to classroom to collect the pets, most of the teachers thanked me for taking them off their hands. Also, to the best of my knowledge there are no laws against animal cruelty in China. It's illegal to kill a panda, but even then I think the official charge is destruction of government property.

The green, dark green and yellowish green (including the ones with the fancy swirly patterns) ones are all Red Ear Sliders, look for the red spot behind the eye. The ones with the painted shells are also red ear sliders. Probably a good opportunity to teach the kids about animal cruelty, and that the painting the shells of the poor babies is very harmful to the animals.

I suppose I could work that into my lessons at some point. My kids are still on 'Hello, my name is... How are you?' type stuff though, so it might be a little difficult for them to know what I'm talking about.

The oval shaped brown/black ones with the yellow markings on their necks are all Chinese Pond turtles (Reeves turtles), including the small ones with the long tails.
While endangered in the wild, they are VERY commonly captive bred, especially in Asia. The ones you see here are most likely captive bred individuals, as going out to the wild to capture such common turtles that don't sell for a lot (babies tend to go for ~$5-6 usd) is likely not worth the effort.

Good to know. Thanks!

The amphibian is likely a Chinese fire belly newt. Common in the asian pet trade. Frozen blood worms can be found at local aquariums, for around a dollar or two you'll get a whole pack of them.
The axolotl and turtles would probably enjoy some blood worms too.

Great! I ordered a bunch of blood worms this morning. Either blood worms are a lot more expensive than what you quoted, or I'm getting a ton of them, but that's okay.

For the eye infection, I would recommend getting povidone iodine solution from your local pet shops. But alternative local brands like 龜精靈 works as well, and are very easily found. (should be in liquid form)

Nice! How did you know about that? Do you live in China?

I recommend separating the babies from the more mature individuals.

Done.

And separate the Reeve's from the Red Ears.

Working on it.

Getting a UV lamp is essential healthy and proper shell growth (prevents deformities later on in life). A basking lamp is also highly recommended.

Also working on it.

I doubt anything can be done. Animal cruelty tends to be overlooked a lot. Especially with common pets like goldfish, turtles and rodents. People treat them like playthings rather than living, breathing creatures.

Yeah. I don't think China even has animal cruelty laws. I'm hoping that if we can create an aesthetically pleasing place where the animals can grow and thrive the school will see what a great asset it can be. We've already had several kids and adults come in to see our turtle town, and it's the exact same turtles they had in their classroom last week, it's just we're taking care of them instead of letting them rot in their own brackish poop water (Who wants to start a band with me called Brackish Poop Water?).

LED lights are not a good option for reptiles. Reptile eyes see different from ours and can distinguish the several colors of the single bulbs while for our eyes the light color will be simple "white" (daylight, warm white, cool daylight, whatever the description says. Appropriate light for reptile husbandry is made up from high intensity discharge lamps and fluorescent tubes.

Okay. That sounds like something I can find easily. I'll start looking.

I have to add....a big thanks to you for taking care of all those poor little buggers.

You're welcome! I would lie if I said I wasn't enjoying it, but there are definitely other things I was planning on doing with my time and money.

[brontosauruschuck]

These animal ID topics strike me as equally appropriate for the Animal Toy Forum as for the DTF, and there are some knowledgeable members over there that do not frequent DTF and would be glad to help. There's even a section dedicated to topics of this kind: http://animaltoyforum.com/index.php?board=13.0

Good to know. I kind of assumed it was basically the same people.

[Flaffy]

Great! I ordered a bunch of blood worms this morning. Either blood worms are a lot more expensive than what you quoted, or I'm getting a ton of them, but that's okay.

Strange, hopefully you're not getting ripped off. Or maybe you could be purchasing a more premium/expensive brand.
For me, I purchase Hikari frozen blood worms, and they run $7-10 hkd per pack ($6.3-9 chinese yuan).

Nice! How did you know about that? Do you live in China?

Close, I reside in Hong Kong. Pet supplies here tend to be sourced from the mainland.

Yeah. I don't think China even has animal cruelty laws.

To my knowledge, China definitely has some form of animal cruelty law. As a man was persecuted this year for pumping water into cattle to artificially increase the cow's weight iirc.
It's really the enforcement and general attitude towards animals that are severely lacking.

I'm hoping that if we can create an aesthetically pleasing place where the animals can grow and thrive the school will see what a great asset it can be.

Great! Hopefully this will inspire the kids to properly care for the pets after you've left. Let them experience the joys of properly caring for a pet.

[Cretaceous Crab]

It's pretty cold outside, so I don't think they should go out, but we have them set up next to a window so they can get sun from that. I ordered some of those heating rods.

Most windows are designed to filter out UV rays, and additionally, they can sometimes magnify the sunlight coming in, and make it too hot. 20-30 mins outside in direct sun, even in cold weather, isn't going to hurt them. The benefits of unfiltered sun and UV radiation will outweigh the discomfort of being cool.

[brontosauruschuck]

For the eye infection, I would recommend getting povidone iodine solution from your local pet shops. But alternative local brands like 龜精靈 works as well, and are very easily found. (should be in liquid form)

I tried finding that on Baopals and Pandaboo and on both when I put in the Chinese characters it just gave me Pokémon stuff.

[Flaffy]

I tried finding that on Baopals and Pandaboo and on both when I put in the Chinese characters it just gave me Pokémon stuff.

ah right, try adding "龜藥水" to "龜精靈", see if it works.

[brontosauruschuck]

I tried finding that on Baopals and Pandaboo and on both when I put in the Chinese characters it just gave me Pokémon stuff.

ah right, try adding "龜藥水" to "龜精靈", see if it works.

I still didn't have any luck with that, but I was able to find another brand of medicine and the turtle is almost fully recovered.

My fish have white spot, which is scary, because they're in there with the axolotl. We got medicine for that too, and we cranked up the heat and added salt. Hopefully it'll work.



I'm still not sure what to do for this guy. He hasn't eaten since we got him. I tried giving him bloodworms and crushed up turtle food. He didn't seem interested. What temperature should his aquarium be? Thanks!

[Lanthanotus]

[...]
My fish have white spot, which is scary, because they're in there with the axolotl. We got medicine for that too, and we cranked up the heat and added salt. Hopefully it'll work.

Especially the salt isn`t something amphibians respond well to, and even with tropic amphibians, increasing heat is often nothing they can cope with. Best would be to seperate the species, ill individiuals should be kept seperately in any case to avoid continious infection via several host organisms.

I'm still not sure what to do for this guy. He hasn't eaten since we got him. I tried giving him bloodworms and crushed up turtle food. He didn't seem interested. What temperature should his aquarium be? Thanks!

You should seperate the poor fellow. Turtles are fairly active reptiles with a very dominant nature, that newt is a sensible and reclusive animal, most active in the short time of mating. It should be offered a moist land with moss and some wood/bark to hide from light. For the water part, add some live water plants (i.e. Taxyphyllum) and also some branches to hide at. It should begin to feed then... try snails or earthworms or for the water, daphnias.

[brontosauruschuck]

I lost the newt before I even had a chance to implement these things. I'm really sad about that. He was such a neat little guy. 

[Halichoeres]

I lost the newt before I even had a chance to implement these things. I'm really sad about that. He was such a neat little guy. 

Bummer to hear that But good on you for trying so hard for all these little homies.