PNSO: New For 2021

[SRF]

Speaking of the Tarbo's head, here are some more in hand photos of its head with the mouth closed.

[Faras]

Looking at the head closer, it's got plenty of issues.

Nostril position: Far too low. It looks fused with the lips on the figure.
Maxilla shape: Too straight / linear. While Torvosaurus is known for a rather straight maxilla, the PNSO figure far overdoes it.
Snout shape: Too triangular. It should be more boxy and rectangular.
Head shape: Potentially too shallow / thin. Could be more robust and deep. Can be argued that it's within the range of individual variation.

it seems Torvosaurus tanneri does have triangular snot, very straight maxilla and thin skull (the individual in pic at least). Agree with weird nostril position, and the curve on maxilla is barely visible. Hope they have some "hidden info" to explan those like the case with miragaia.




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[Faelrin]

@Flaffy Thank you for your analysis and understanding of the fossil material for Torvosaurus, and how the figure appears to hold up (with the promo pics only for now). A bit disappointing they have gotten things wrong.

In regards to your other post I definitely agree about the points you make about expectations and pricing. There have been both hits and misses coming from them on both of those points. I know I definitely can't go and shell out every time a new $40 figure is available. It just isn't feasible for me. It is why I certainly have been very picky and really give it some thought, and wait for reviews in many cases, before getting something, or planning to.


Also something I've been wondering is how PNSO's onslaught of figures since late 2020 will bode for other companies going forward, such as the hefty competition and marketing tactics? Almost a new figure revealed every week or two now, most around $40 these days. It's unfathomable to see. Like Safari Ltd really only had 3 in the main prehistoric lineup, 2 for their mythical range, and a few repaints for the Dino Dana movie tie in for 2021. Assuming most collectors are caught up on the offerings that interested them, new and old, there isn't much reason to buy from them throughout the year, and although I'm guessing collectors may not be a huge part of their total sales, but surely some of it, right, so wouldn't this newfound competition impact them? CollectA is a little different, as I believe releases are spaced out a little more, and there was a bit more of it, like previous years, but I'm sure the other point still stands. I also wonder how this may fare for Papo as well, who only has 2 releases coming out that don't seem to appeal to too many as it is, and prior to PNSO, Rebor, Nanmu, etc entering the picture they were for quite a while the only company in the high detail, medium price point part of the market for prehistoric figures. Schleich is still probably a juggernaut on the market so I'm not as concerned for them. Granted they may do as they always have and could surely still be fine, but nonetheless I am curious and concerned for how next year's product reveals will go. We draw ever closer to that moment.

[Faras]

On the other hand, I hope that they will commercialize the zhuchengtyrannus and finally I believe that PNSO is taking risks (it is to be appreciated in the first place)... PNSO yangchaunosaurus whose lack of sustainability in my collection is a complete disgrace and I have had to resort to using glue to keep this figure stabilized as I already mentioned in another thread.

PNSO's main sources of income are books and exhibitions (since Chinese parents would only buy one toy or two for kids on special occasions while spending thousands on books without hesitation ). Model is kind of a "side product" which only gain attention of investors in around 2020. Guess we can say they are safe so long they are releasing models not-so-famous species (and not caring whether people would buy) Rumor says the main sculptor Zhao Chuang wanted some bronze statues for himself so they decided to made bunch lol

Regarding sculptors, Zhao Chuang mainly make life size models for museums and exhibitions while there is probably a team to turn those models into toys, hence the trial on scale size. The team sometimes make their own models (mainly early products) with varying involvment of Zhao.

Official response regarding material is it needs to be soft enough for children and using or placing hard stuffs in legs would cost too much (GRtoys and Nanmu ones are nearly twice the price). Rumor says tarbo uses somewhat harder material and they might have intentionally added thicker footpads to reduce bending, guess we will need to wait and see. Regarding museum line ones without stands, Zhuchengtyrannus: turn the figure 180 degree so his body points upward, Giganotosaurus: place something under his right foot, hope it helps 

[SRF]

Maybe I'm the only one, but looking at this picture of the Torvosaurus it reminds me a lot of the Giganotosaurus from Vitae. 

[Flaffy]

Looking at the head closer, it's got plenty of issues.

Nostril position: Far too low. It looks fused with the lips on the figure.
Maxilla shape: Too straight / linear. While Torvosaurus is known for a rather straight maxilla, the PNSO figure far overdoes it.
Snout shape: Too triangular. It should be more boxy and rectangular.
Head shape: Potentially too shallow / thin. Could be more robust and deep. Can be argued that it's within the range of individual variation.

it seems Torvosaurus tanneri does have triangular snot, very straight maxilla and thin skull (the individual in pic at least). Agree with weird nostril position, and the curve on maxilla is barely visible. Hope they have some "hidden info" to explan those like the case with miragaia.

*snip*

The figure you're using as reference is from the 30 year old paper "Theropods of Dry Mesa Quarry (Morrison Formation,. Late Jurassic), Colorado, with Emphasis on the Osteology of Torvosaurus tanneri". By now, better reconstructions of both the Torvosaurus are available thanks to new specimens, along with improvements in methodology. I find newer modern reconstructions by palaeontologists / paleoartists like Franoys, randomdinos and Paleojoe more reliable in that sense.
Also to be noted, unknown elements in the paper reconstruction were based on Ceratosaurus, a distinctly non-megalosaurid theropod. Compromising the accuracy of the entire skull shape.

I am well aware that Torvosaurus had a distinctly straight maxilla. But as I've said before, the figure's maxilla is far too straight compared to fossil evidence.

[Stegotyranno420]

@Flaffy  I don't know bout you but I can clearly see the outlin of the skull

[Rivera2171]

Never thought I'd say this, but there is just too many releases! Need more space and cant keep up!

[Thialfi]

I have to agree, PNSO is releasing so much in such quick succession that I almost get desensitised for their releases. There is hardly any time to get excited about one release or the next one is waiting already. A more spread out schedule would do them well. A lot of beautiful models get snowed under now I feel.

[Flaffy]

@Flaffy  I don't know bout you but I can clearly see the outlin of the skull

@Stegotyranno420  Not sure why the modern palaeontology community considers even mild outlines of fenetrae/skull "shrinkwrapping".
I've given this example and I'll give it again: if the PNSO Torvosaurus can be considered shrinkwrapped, then the Saurian Tyrannosaurus is shrinkwrapped as well. Dinosaurs should not be entirely reconstructed with mammalian soft tissue in mind.

[Bokisaurus]

And another exciting and beautiful model!😃
Surely a buy for me and it's great to start seeing in hand photos of the tarbosaurus, it looks every bit as impressive as the promotional pics, even better.

Now that that's out of the way....
@Kapitaenosavrvs  finally a comment in this long chain that I can agree with.
I am shaking my head just skimming all the negative and harsh comments about these two new figures.
Right off the bat it's criticized for not meeting the "standard ".

PNSO delivered high quality figures, figures that just a couple of years ago we were all dreaming and hoping for, and now that's it's a reality, it's like let's not even acknowledge that's we can enjoy them, buts it's almost an all out assault to bring them down.
So many have now been so used to PNSO that we take their very existence for granted.

Let's not forget that PNSO has only been around in producing figures a mere 5 years and 2 of that they were MIA.
Anyone else remember how devastating it was when we found out that PNSO  disappeared and thought they were gone for good? Yup, that was only 2016.

Finally when they survived and started producing quality figures, it's now complaining and negative comments?
What happened in 2016 could easily happen again, now imagine that?
And that applies to all brands as well. Just think of that for a second.

Why not allow even a few hour to enjoy and celebrate the figures? Is it necessary to be that negative and harsh right away?
It's one reason why I rarely engage in many thread, it's just becoming too toxic that you forget to celebrate and be excited.
Such negativity leaves a very unpleasant taste that can be hard to get rid of.

@Faelrin - I wondered about the impact of PNSO with the other brand for a while as well.
But I think PNSO is creating a good spot for them without trying to negatively impact other brands sales.
People often complain about the increase in PNSO prices. True they are more expensive now, but so are many things.
Cost of materials and labor, not to mention international shipping has all contributed to price increases.
That being said, I truly believe that what PNSO is doing is creating a market for them without direct competition.

On one end of the price and quality spectrum we have brands like Safari, CollectA, Schleich, mojo, papo, etc. with price range from$5-30 competing in that market.
Then you have the other end where high pvc models like IToy, Nanmu, W-dragon, GR toys, rebor all with a price starting at $70 and up all competing in that market.
That leaves PNSO in the middle range starting at$22-70 with little competition.

Of the older brands, Papo I think is the one that would seriously be impacted since they tend to cost a lot more.

That my two cents.

[Pachyventer]

Meet Torvo at the Model Toy Center on Aliexpress))
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002840982415.html?spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.7bdd3e5fe3iRFN

Got my copy with the box.

[SidB]

That sums up of how I  often see things too, B @Bokisaurus . I feel very privileged to be collecting in these times. PNSO has filled a big vacuum left by the retreat of several other more established companies during the last year or so, and filled them with remarkable products. Still, I'm also grateful for several of the posters who make careful, well thought-out constructive criticisms of their figures that give them the opportunity to keep on raising the bar. As it has been pointed out, we are increasingly becoming accustomed to and expect better and better figures, so on one hand it's not too much to expect a serious effort on the part of the artists to do their research; on the other hand, one must make a decent effort to understand the design decisions that go  into sculpting debatable/arguable details. Admittedly, that's often difficult and perhaps avoiding jumping to overly quick criticisms without seeing the full picture is a good idea. It's okay to express coherent reservations without resorting to outright condemnations of a product. As a positive example, I can see that a lot of reasonable thought and assertions were made in the recent back and forth over the size and shape of the lacrimal horns on the new Torvosaurus. Other examples will spring to mind. Overall, I find that this thread has a lot of valuable insights that keep me returning. I've learned a great deal from the constructive criticisms. Strong, well thought-out suggestions for improvements have been stimulating rather than discouraging and haven't stopped me from purchasing figures such as 'Winter Wilson', the Carnotaurus and the new Tarbosaurus. But I do agree that sometimes an imbalance emerges, where criticism threatens to submerge and ignore the many positives, and perhaps appears to be hyper-critical, simply because the poster seldom acknowledges the good points or reduces them to faint praise. I'm certainly not guiltless in this respect, but am learning to craft my thoughts and words more accurately and fairly.

[SidB]

Meet Torvo at the Model Toy Center on Aliexpress))
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002840982415.html?spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.7bdd3e5fe3iRFN

Got my copy with the box.

Thanks for the notice, This is a great price, including very low shipping cost, so I appreciate the heads-up. I ordered one.

[PhilSauria]

Thanks for the tip-off - just ordered mine as well!

I'm back and I'm buyin'

[Shonisaurus]

Magnificent torvosaurus figure at a fairly affordable price. His painting is exceptional and his sculpture ... is the most perfect that can be found in the market. Collecta's torvosaurus is good ... but next to this figure it looks like a cheap toy dinosaur figure, although it should be noted that the figure is much cheaper and the figure despite the years is a super attractive figure, but before the perfection and beauty of PNSO one is left speechless although I know any comparison is hateful.


Hands down the best torvosaurus on the toy dinosaur market to date. PNSO never ceases to amaze me. On the other hand, magnificent criticisms from the DTF regarding the scientific or otherwise of its figures. I like the constructive criticisms that make dinosaur toy companies, whatever they are, re-establish themselves in making better and better figures, which increases industrial competitiveness in relation to their figures.

This figure has given me great joy. I honestly like that figure better than the tyrannosauroids (tyrannosaurus rex and tarbosaurus from PNSO).

On the other hand, sculpture painting does not have to envy the best artists of repainting figures of dinosaurs or other prehistoric toy animals, many of them fortunately members of DTF. It is the most interesting theropod of all along with the carcharodontosaurus nicknamed Gamba.

[ceratopsian]

I broadly agree with B @Bokisaurus.  Yes, I remember how sad I felt when PNSO disappeared from view, and my joy at their resurgence. 

I certainly often find this a dispiriting thread to read these days.  I no longer feel comfortable commenting on PNSO releases - but as the current focus is theropods, and hence something I'm less likely to purchase (space constraints force focus!), I'd be less likely to comment anyway.  If people were happier to write about any praiseworthy things they identify in a model in addition to what they object to, it would come across as more balanced rather than as a barrage of criticism. If I read this thread in the abstract, I would assume that hardly anyone here in this community ever purchased a PNSO model - which I'm pretty sure isn't the case.  It isn't that I'm not interested in the discussion of faults.  They can be thought provoking.  But I want to hear both praise and criticism.

S @SidB - if we want PNSO to raise the bar, criticism needs to be placed somewhere PNSO will see it.  I assume they would follow Chinese boards, but we have no evidence that they've ever dipped into our forum I think. 

@Faras - some interesting insights, thank you.

[postsaurischian]

Why not allow even a few hour to enjoy and celebrate the figures? Is it necessary to be that negative and harsh right away?
It's one reason why I rarely engage in many thread, it's just becoming too toxic that you forget to celebrate and be excited.
Such negativity leaves a very unpleasant taste that can be hard to get rid of.

Thank you B @Bokisaurus, I stopped reading the posts in this thread except for some like yours.
We have quite some notorious grumblers here and I'm afraid there's no way to please them.

People often complain about the increase in PNSO prices. True they are more expensive now, but so are many things.
Cost of materials and labor, not to mention international shipping has all contributed to price increases.

If the models would cost less, the same people would start complaining that PNSO doesn't treat and pay their workers right .
I can imagine what such figures would cost if the had been produced in the U.S. or in Europe.
In today's hating world it's impossible to do anything right.

[Psittacoraptor]

I'm new here but I have to agree that the weird negativity and pettiness of the complaints is making me not want to read this thread anymore. Criticism is fine and shows interest in the topic and product but the extent of it in this thread is ... a bit strange. The fact of the matter is that we do not know exactly what these animals looked like. There is always going to artistic freedom to these models. Gaps in knowledge and gaps in fossil material will be filled in by the sculptors and painters, and it's not going to suit everyone's biases. My main pet peeve with paleontology is how much personal bias, interpretation and conjecture is being presented as accuracy or fact. Let's take the one that annoys me the most because of the vehemency that some people (not so much here from what I've seen but rather on other social media platforms) defend their position: lips. I have seen people on PNSO's instagram whose first comment on a new figure is "Why no lips? It's not accurate!". There is no evidence for lips, only inference. Inference is not evidence. So scientifically speaking, both lipped and lipless are just as "accurate". Yet you have people acting like it's a proven fact which interpretation is the accurate one. It is not. This would not be taken seriously in any scientific field other than vertebrate paleontology.

[SRF]

I think PNSO is indeed aware of the critique their figures get, so I feel we don't need to complain about them not improving their products.

Just compare the skin detailing of the T. Rex, Qianzhousaurus and Carnotaurus with the Carcharodontosaurus, Allosaurus, Tarbosaurus and Torvosaurus and the differences are very obvious. Not only that, the speed in which they have shown that they can improve their products is phenomenal. Those first 3 figures were only released six months (!!) ago.