PNSO: New For 2021

[Thialfi]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. People seem to hold PNSO figures to a different standard than other brands. It's a little disheartening to see figures being nitpicked like crazy where, were they of another brand, they would surely be applauded.

I do think PNSOs lightning speed release schedule does kind of cause this behaviour though - people don't take the time to truly appreciate a new model as they know a new one is around the corner the week after. It kind of plays into the desire to always want better, more, etc. Like I said upthread, I feel a lot of great models get snowed under because of this, and as a result people will will nitpick tiny details to death as they have to make choices quick which figure they want to buy.

On a personal level, I honestly forgot about for example the yutyrannus being released amidst all the other great models being announced and released in such quick succession. Normally that yutyrannus would be a no-brainer for me, but now I feel I have to make a choice and I catch myself focussing on little details as to why I would prefer one model over another.

Having said all this, PNSO figures are truly pieces of art. I love all the work they put into their figures, nothing but praise there. If I could I wouldn't hesitate to get each and every one of them.

[Leyster]

There is so much we (I) do not know and Nature is often quite funny when it comes to living organism design. Also, CollectA was always praised for going unconventional. Now PNSO does a bit of that here and there, but it seems unwanted. No Figure will ever be perfect to everyone. A lot of the Figures in this Tsunami of Figures amlost did that to a lot of people. At least, thats what i felt.

For me, it's the general lack of consistency in their reconstructions that bug me. I'm fine with speculative features, but when the sculpt is a mishmash of both conservative, speculative and inaccurate aspects, then that makes me question how rigorous the research/sculpting process behind PNSO figures actually is. After all, they are marketing these as figures as scientifically accurate, educational, and representative of the actual animals.

Take the Torvosaurus for example~
Conservative:
- Lack of lips
- Minimal soft tissue around the jowls and neck
- Minimal facial tissue

Speculative:
- Huge lacrimal crests
- Pronounced nasal crests
- Ridge of dorsal spikes
- Presence of large scales / osteoderms all over the body
- Extended fleshy nostril (on the assumption that this was intentional)

Inaccurate:
- Triangular snout tip
- Lack of maxilla curvature
- Lack of lips (depending on who you talk to)
- Nostril position being way off (on the assumption that this was not intentional)

The reason why PNSO gets so much flak at times can be explained by:
1) High expectations, High standards. PNSO has set the bar incredibly high for their figures, to both their benefit and detriment. Sometimes it's disappointing to see a figure that's basically perfect in every way, only to be followed by a mediocre release ridden with inaccuracies and outdated features.
2) Price. I personally don't believe it's possible to judge a figure fully without factoring in the price. Many collectors outside of China are paying top dollar for PNSO figures; and with that hefty price tag, people will and should expect something of outstanding quality. But when PNSO fails to deliver with shoddy QC and paint apps that are a far cry from their promo pics, people get rightfully upset.

I totally second this.

[Bread]

Why not allow even a few hour to enjoy and celebrate the figures? Is it necessary to be that negative and harsh right away?
It's one reason why I rarely engage in many thread, it's just becoming too toxic that you forget to celebrate and be excited.
Such negativity leaves a very unpleasant taste that can be hard to get rid of.

Thank you B @Bokisaurus, I stopped reading the posts in this thread except for some like yours.
We have quite some notorious grumblers here and I'm afraid there's no way to please them.

I have to say I am doing the same. I heavily rely on instagram now to receive any information on revealed PNSO figures. Seeing the harsh comments on figures that have just been revealed just ever so slightly pushes me away from the forum/this thread more and more. I rarely come back to this one anymore.

While a lot of these comments are harsh on the Torvosaurus, I for one think this is a beauty. We do not have many or any figures of this genus that I can think of. PNSO's really breaking collector's wallets at this point.

[JohannesB]

Even relatively bad photographs don't make this Tarbosaurus look bad, which I am glad for :-) I am eagerly awaiting mine to arrive. Also, the Tarbosaurus' head does look proportionally bigger than PNSO's T. rex on that photo, so that is nice to see. I love the Tyrannosaurus ('Wilson 2.0'), but I think I love this Tarbosaurus even more.

[Gwangi]

The more I look at it the more in love I am with that Tarbosaurus. I wanted to take a month off from buying new figures but I might have to get just one more. 

[SidB]

I broadly agree with B @Bokisaurus.  Yes, I remember how sad I felt when PNSO disappeared from view, and my joy at their resurgence. 

I certainly often find this a dispiriting thread to read these days.  I no longer feel comfortable commenting on PNSO releases - but as the current focus is theropods, and hence something I'm less likely to purchase (space constraints force focus!), I'd be less likely to comment anyway.  If people were happier to write about any praiseworthy things they identify in a model in addition to what they object to, it would come across as more balanced rather than as a barrage of criticism. If I read this thread in the abstract, I would assume that hardly anyone here in this community ever purchased a PNSO model - which I'm pretty sure isn't the case.  It isn't that I'm not interested in the discussion of faults.  They can be thought provoking.  But I want to hear both praise and criticism.

S @SidB - if we want PNSO to raise the bar, criticism needs to be placed somewhere PNSO will see it.  I assume they would follow Chinese boards, but we have no evidence that they've ever dipped into our forum I think. 

@Faras - some interesting insights, thank you.

Yes, that thought (the question of PNSO's access to the forum) is more than a bit of an "elephant in the room." For me, I'm hoping that, a) some of our members with access to the Chinese boards might be of service here, and b) PNSO's marketing people might, just might be aware of our existence, whether in reference to a) or simple by having an interest in  and capability to access our Forum.

[Shonisaurus]

Despite the criticism, it must be recognized that PNSO is the best scientific dinosaur company in the world and it is becoming the most varied. The problem that PNSO will cause is the following that if they are marketed in Europe and America, to give two examples, they will cause the disappearance of many companies. With that company it is very difficult to compete, considering that China has immense human potential and with the number of artists like Zhao Chuang and that he is not the only one, it will make PNSO over time if this continues, it will be together with Chinese companies and other parts of Asia are the only ones selling quality dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals.

I can't imagine if India with its human potential also started creating toy dinosaur companies, would you figure it out? together with China, they would absorb the world toy industry.

That torvosaurus is undoubtedly the best by far of all those on the market.

If PNSO is also encouraged to make prehistoric mammals like the famous iToy paraceratherium, who will be able to compete against this company? Getting to the point the torvosaurus as I have already mentioned is a more worthy collector's figure and less suitable for children. That torvosaurus could even be found next to torvosaurus skeletons, in the best museums in the world, as well as the rest of the PNSO prehistoric animals in facts to date.

For so many dinosaurs, if you want to buy one the entire collection, I am afraid you will have to mortgage the summer holidays and all kinds of luxuries, there is no other option, at least for my part it will be like that.

[Kaustav Bhattacharyya]

Another version of winter wilson with corrected skin texture and with a novel color scheme is indispensable in the near future, as have been done for their Stan Wilson figures.

[RobinGoodfellow]

Why not allow even a few hour to enjoy and celebrate the figures? Is it necessary to be that negative and harsh right away?
It's one reason why I rarely engage in many thread, it's just becoming too toxic that you forget to celebrate and be excited.
Such negativity leaves a very unpleasant taste that can be hard to get rid of.

Thank you B @Bokisaurus, I stopped reading the posts in this thread except for some like yours.
We have quite some notorious grumblers here and I'm afraid there's no way to please them.

..I started to post more and more rarely on DTF because of things like that... too much negativity, too many criticisms, no joy in collecting anymore, too many super-experts and less and less collectors... DTF has changed so much.. 

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[ceratopsian]

........

..I started to post more and more rarely on DTF because of things like that... too much negativity, too many criticisms, no joy in collecting anymore, too many super-experts and less and less collectors... DTF has changed so much.. 

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My bronze Thalassodromeus is due to arrive soon.  But I must confess I'll be wary of saying much about it in case the criticism deflates my collector joy too painfully.

On a cheaper note, my Pachycephalosaurus is due to arrive tomorrow from Everything Dinosaur!

[MLMjp]

Ok, Tarbosaurus looks better, still chonky, but much better.

[Mattyonyx]

Although I do agree that the prices are becoming too high, especially when compared to the first releases from 2020, I can't shake off the feeling that sometimes there's a "double standards" logic behind the opinion on certain models.

Don't get me wrong, constructive criticism is always welcome and it's helping companies like PNSO improve a lot in a short time, it's just that I don't see such nitpicking on pop-culture inspired products from Rebor, Nanmu, or W-Dragon, which have grown a lot despite some evident screen inaccuracies (and the prices are even higher in many cases) because of people's enthusiasm.

I don't know, by reading some comments (even on our Paleo-Nerd platforms) it's like many of us are questioning PNSO's strife for accuracy when, although there might be some divisive choices, it's pretty remarkable.

In the big picture, we're looking at a lot of figures that blend a high level of accuracy with a life-like appearance, the latter being "exclusive" to pop-culture models for too long, and I think it's really important to the cause.

That doesn't mean we can't talk about what's controversial, it's something we do with every company, I'm just thinking that if a couple of years ago someone had told me that we would have something like PNSO, Vitae, and Yvy Figures, I would have never believed it.

[sauroid]

I think PNSO is indeed aware of the critique their figures get, so I feel we don't need to complain about them not improving their products.

Just compare the skin detailing of the T. Rex, Qianzhousaurus and Carnotaurus with the Carcharodontosaurus, Allosaurus, Tarbosaurus and Torvosaurus and the differences are very obvious. Not only that, the speed in which they have shown that they can improve their products is phenomenal. Those first 3 figures were only released six months (!!) ago.

i do indeed believe that PNSO listens to criticisms, people have been complaining about the samey brown base colors of their recent-ish figures and the last three new ones are anything but brown.

[Duna]

I just can't buy all the PNSO figures (which I would love if I had the money, excepting the new tyrannosaurus, which I just can't look at because of those disproportionate scutes) so I've ordered yesterday the yutyrannus and the tarbosaurus. And the GR Toys Carcharodontosaurus (I think I don't need another more rod in another tiger painted figure if I can avoid it by buying a slightly bigger figure with a more interesting paint scheme that does not need a support).
Tarbosaurus is one of the "classic" dinosaurs from my childhood so it was on my list and Yutyrannus is interesting as other newer ones (atlasaurus, bajadasaurus, qianzhousaurus ...). Both are amazing.

It's so nice to see how the newer figures like Parasaurolophus, Allosaurus, Carcharodontosaurus, Tarbo and Torvo have improved the skin detail (poor Wilson and Domingo) and they are absolutely incredible in this aspect.
I think PNSO is setting very high the market of accurate and not exorbitantly expensive medium sized figures. Very good job!

[Halichoeres]

Oh wow, another theropod. I think I'll get the Helicoprion instead of the Tarbosaurus first, as a personal message to PNSO that I'd love to see more non-dinosaur models from them, haha.

@Psittacoraptor same! It's the only recent PNSO I've ordered on the day it became available. I might order some of the theropods when their price drops in time, but only if there's something else--maybe a plastic edition of the Edmontonia?--that I want more.

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On the general tenor of the thread: I generally like that there are people who know more than I do about particular groups, and that I can learn something about anatomy from their critiques. If I wanted uncritical gushing, there are FB groups and YouTube channels for that. I guess I haven't found any of the discussion excessively negative, but I can see why some might. It's true that criticisms tend to outnumber praise on this thread in particular. I have a couple of thoughts on that:

If the forum has changed in the last few years, I think some of it might be because of social media, where it's very easy to express support for something by pressing the like button. Here, the bar is a little higher, you actually have to go to the trouble of typing a comment. People who are dissatisfied are more motivated to reply, so you're going to see more of their comments. If you like something in a thread, I'd encourage you to overcome the minor hurdle of typing out a positive comment. If people bother to post positive comments, the whole place will feel more positive, I promise! Withdrawing from the forum doesn't really advance that goal.

Don't get me wrong, constructive criticism is always welcome and it's helping companies like PNSO improve a lot in a short time, it's just that I don't see such nitpicking on pop-culture inspired products from Rebor, Nanmu, or W-Dragon, which have grown a lot despite some evident screen inaccuracies (and the prices are even higher in many cases) because of people's enthusiasm.

I think people who are into extinct animals as they actually were have mostly written those brands off. I dislike the output of all three of those companies, but it doesn't really seem worth commenting on because they're clearly making a product that isn't aimed at people interested in science (with the obvious caveat that some people interested in science are also into cinematic monsters; they're distinct but overlapping audiences and I'm only in one of them).

Edit: sorry @Mattyonyx, I misread your original post, you were talking specifically about screen accuracy. That I cannot explain.

[SidB]

The social media observation is astute, I believe, as it provides a relevant context
The DTF/DTB is, after all, just a bubble on a large, swift-moving river.

[Flaffy]

With the current golden age of dinosaur figures, it's extremely easy to get overwhelmed by the multitude of fantastic releases by companies from all over the globe. I sure as heck have been for the past few years. With this, collectors have to make tough decisions; balancing price, quality, scientific accuracy (in those that claim to be as such) and accessibility of a given figure.

As companies continuously raise the bar higher and higher in terms of quality, inevitably, the ultimate deciding factor(s) between two figures may very well boil down to extremely minute anatomical details, along with highly subjective personal preferences; Where one figure often only barely edges the other one out. I find myself in this sticky situation a lot nowadays, I'll give a recent example:
I had a hard time deciding between the PNSO and BotM Yutyrannus. Both are equally good figures in their own right, and successfully achieve what they set out to do. As much as I'd like to indulge in both models, I simply do not have the funds to do so. Hence, the only way I can make a decision is by comparing both figures down to the finest detail.

The reason why I bring up these seemingly small "issues" is to serve as a reference point for myself. It helps consolidate and organise my thoughts and ideas into a concise post; what I consider to be pros and cons; summarising my personal feelings in a highly subjective conclusion; and aids me in making difficult decisions. I post them publicly so that other members may form their own opinions based on the discrepancies I notice. I don't mention the other non-erogenous parts of the figures in my posts because there is simply nothing to critique, they're perfect the way they are. Should I be more balanced in my criticisms in the future? After reading @boki @post @cerat posts, I understand their perspective and their criticism of my behaviour. I'll make an effort to be more positive in my future posts, but I cannot guarantee vocal praises that are much more than "The rest look perfect". If I like a figure enough, I (try to) get it. I think that alone speaks volumes compared to a line of text on a digital message board.

I apologise if my posts came out as hateful, that was most certainly not my intention. My impulsive use of the word "eye-candy" definitely came out wrong and I apologise for that. Contrary to what some might think, I am mostly pleased with what PNSO has offered so far. In a vacuum, if only PNSO figures were available, I can absolutely see myself acquiring their entire line (given I have the necessary funds). However, PNSO is not the only company on the market, and with a multitude of competitors and offerings to choose from, it's hard not to bring up comparisons. I'm just a person that tends to focus A LOT on the minute details, for better or worse.

On the other hand, I personally don't see how civil discussions on accuracy can be labelled as toxic, or an "all out assault" against the company itself. I think it's dishonest to imply or assume that anyone had any malicious intent. To me, actual toxicity is blind uninformed hate, lacking any sort of logical arguments, fuelled by ignorance and negativity. As this was something I was guilty of in the past (in both Schleich and Rebor threads), I now seek to learn as much as I can about any given species before making a critique post. From reading scientific publications, to searching for up-to-date references, and seeking the opinions of others who are more informed on the topic than I am. Moreover, I most certainly don't claim to be a "super-expert" on any subject in palaeontology. Doing so would just be dishonest, and undermine the hard-work done by actual researchers in the field.

I do not have an unlimited budget. I am not a collector who can regularly shell out a couple hundred or thousand bucks on an expensive resin statue mounted on an impressive custom build base, adorned with an intricate custom paint scheme by talented artists. As such, I have to be extremely particular on what I choose to spend my money on. Me not openly expressing my fondness of a PNSO figure does not equate to me hating PNSO as a company or their work. If I truly despised the company like members are insinuating, I wouldn't have supported the company financially by purchasing their figures in the first place.

Dinosaur toys have just gotten so good nowadays to the point where the only things to criticise are these minute details. This begs the question: Is there a limit where a detail is so minute to the point that criticising it would be utterly meaningless? Admittedly, I don't have a good answer to this question. What constitutes an "insignificant" discrepancy is inherently subjective. There's a lot of collectors that are far more forgiving to inaccuracies; and there are others that are stringent on the tiniest of details, to the point where it takes the fun out of the hobby. Given the recent responses, I realise that I'm in the latter. I stand by the core ideals of my posts, even when the presentation of those ideas and opinions are... abrasive. While I can't control what others think of me or my posts, what I certainly can do is try not to "ruin the mood" as much. As stated before, I'll make an effort to refrain from using such harsh language in the future.

On a final note however, I believe it's unfair to prohibit "controversial" topics. With this wave of comments, I personally feel that freedom of expression is being somewhat policed. If someone likes a figure, they have full freedom to express their positive opinions of it. In fact, I fully encourage it! The more diverse the voices, the better! On the flip side, if someone doesn't like a figure, or if someone has fair criticisms, they too should have the freedom to express their opinions in a civilised manner. No one is stopping any members from contributing positive posts to the discussion, so why is it that there's this attitude to disallow posts that can be perceived as negative to some? Wouldn't withdrawing from the forum, and in turn eliminating valuable and diverse voices from our community serve to further exacerbate the perceived problem?

My thoughts on why PNSO gets so much flak nowadays is discussed in this post: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=9130.msg293912#msg293912 . Though in summary, the quality (not related to scientific accuracy) of a figure should reflect its price, be it:
- Paint job: It's likeness to the promo pics. Don't advertise a spectacular paint job on promo shots only to have the final paintwork fall short of expectations.
- QC: Heavily scuffed paint, poorly assembled jaw articulation, warping despite being in a secure box. (I have experienced all 3 issues on my PNSO figures)
- Size(?): Unsure if it's due to COVID related price hikes, or just PNSO cashing in on popular species, but figures like the Pachycephalosaurus, Stegosaurus and Pinacosaurus seem rather overpriced to me.

[Carnoking]

I'll always love seeing models that reflect the creatures from some of my favorite films. That's why I originally got into collecting, and the sheer amount of high-quality movie dinosaur models that were on the market when I first started set an incredibly high bar for what it is I look for in collecting. Now that I'm equally interested in getting scientific models, PNSO is the first (and really only) affordable company to offers such high levels of quality in regards to both sculpture and paint. Do I have gripes with some of their figures? For sure, the perfect dinosaur figure is hard come by even in this saturated market. But are they still my favorite scientific model company? Absolutely.

[Mattyonyx]

Don't get me wrong, constructive criticism is always welcome and it's helping companies like PNSO improve a lot in a short time, it's just that I don't see such nitpicking on pop-culture inspired products from Rebor, Nanmu, or W-Dragon, which have grown a lot despite some evident screen inaccuracies (and the prices are even higher in many cases) because of people's enthusiasm.

I think people who are into extinct animals as they actually were have mostly written those brands off. I dislike the output of all three of those companies, but it doesn't really seem worth commenting on because they're clearly making a product that isn't aimed at people interested in science (with the obvious caveat that some people interested in science are also into cinematic monsters; they're distinct but overlapping audiences and I'm only in one of them).

What I meant is that I've seen many people getting excited about those releases despite some "imperfections" on their side (which are more obvious because they are copies of animatronics and CGI models), and buying them because they have a certain feel. Then, many people who are into accurate depictions are immediately putting the more scientific models under the microscope, like they need to prove those models are not worthy.

It happens a lot, hence why the "double standards" thing.

as I said, constructive criticism is always welcome, it's more about the way things are said, especially when the topic is still somehow speculative. In my activity, I've met real paleontologists and paleoartists that have been less critical than people on socials and forums, and to me this says a lot.

[Faras]

The figure you're using as reference is from the 30 year old paper "Theropods of Dry Mesa Quarry (Morrison Formation,. Late Jurassic), Colorado, with Emphasis on the Osteology of Torvosaurus tanneri". By now, better reconstructions of both the Torvosaurus are available thanks to new specimens, along with improvements in methodology. I find newer modern reconstructions by palaeontologists / paleoartists like Franoys, randomdinos and Paleojoe more reliable in that sense.
Also to be noted, unknown elements in the paper reconstruction were based on Ceratosaurus, a distinctly non-megalosaurid theropod. Compromising the accuracy of the entire skull shape.

I am well aware that Torvosaurus had a distinctly straight maxilla. But as I've said before, the figure's maxilla is far too straight compared to fossil evidence.

Um sorry, what I mean is the shape of premaxilla in the figue. Did a quick search and it seems there is no other premaxilla found other than BYUVP 4882 (incrushed, with tip of nasal and most of the maxillary processes missing). Mount of Elvis seemly has fairly triangular snot while Portuguese mount of T. gurneyi has boxy snot. Recent reconstructions of paleoartists have varying snots ranging from rectangular and triangular (some with a curve at tip, some without) which is honestly quite confusing so I would refrain from criticising triangular snot shape.

Regarding straight maxilla, it might be PNSO's notorious official pictures and teaser model (eg awful teeth on Yutyrannus) again, because in other pics it does not look that straight:

Anyways first in hand pics would be posted on Baidu Tieba tomorrow (mine in 3-4 days), then we can see about the actual model.