PREHISTORIC PLANET

[Gwangi]

To be fair (in reference to Hank submerging his head), we see swimming elephants do more-or-less the same, submerging their heads to check something out (E.g. ~3:10 in the Uncovered video). In this case, Hank saw the splash made by the mosasaur's tail (~3:50 in said video) & submerged his head to check it out.

I'm sure cherry picked examples can be picked out of the animal kingdom for every behavior I've mentioned. But since we're dealing with speculation on the part of extinct animals I prefer to see behaviors a little more thought out and in keeping with general behavior. Maybe that makes me boring, I know. Elephants enjoy being in and around water, and have a built-in snorkel. The T. rex wasn't in that water taking a leisurely swim like an elephant. Generally when terrestrial animals cross water they just want to get in and get out. Wildebeests crossing a river for example, they aren't submerging their heads and scanning for crocodiles. Even a duck, when it hears a splash, will just move faster instead of submerge it's head and look around for the danger.

Thanks for sharing that Hallett piece, I had never seen that one before!

I'm not as confident in my knowledge of marine reptiles, so I won't argue that point. I'll just say that, in terms of social behavior, PhP's tuarangisaurs remind me of shinglebacks ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4zau3U8aGU ) & Green iguanas ("Pods of babies and looking after siblings": https://web.archive.org/web/20180509234227/https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/amazing-social-life-of-green-iguana/ ).

Shingleback skinks and their unique parental care did come to mind but again, that is a cherry picked example that represents the exception, not the norm. I'm aware of parental care in reptiles and have no issue with reptiles being presented as good parents. I can cite some example myself. Many snakes exhibit parental care (https://snakesarelong.blogspot.com/2015/11/snakes-that-are-good-parents.html) and the Asian forest tortoise guards its eggs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEFrDHNPD2A). But again, the parental care in these animals is limited and nothing like what we see in cetaceans, primates, elephants, or the plesiosaurs in Prehistoric Planet.

Also, to be fair, those sharks w/long pregnancies "live in cold waters, which may explain why they're remarkable slowpokes when it comes to giving birth — chilly temperatures tend to slow down your metabolism if you're a cold-blooded creature" ( https://oceana.org/blog/forget-giraffes-5-reasons-why-sharks-have-coolest-pregnancies/ ). Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't plesiosaurs more endothermic & living in warmer waters?

I'm not sure what the point here is. A long gestation period is a long gestation period regardless of the reasons why. A two year gestation period is a long investment either way. But sharks in general are late to mature, have long gestation periods, produce relatively few young, and exhibit no parental care. And that is true for functionally warm-blooded sharks and those that live in tropical waters. The sandtiger shark has a gestation period of 8-12 months and gives birth to a single 1m long pup. Females mature at 7-10 years and only produce offspring every 2-3 years. Spiny dogfish mature at 12 years of age, have a 2 year gestation period, and produce 6 pups. White sharks are functionally warm-blooded, live in warm waters, and still take decades to mature. Gestation period is about a year, and they give birth to 2-12 pups.

To be fair (in reference to Velociraptor), hawks are similar (E.g. "Although Red-tailed hawks have been observed eating carrion, they prefer live prey": https://raptorresource.blogspot.com/2013/04/meet-stitch-red-tailed-hawk.html ). Also (in reference to flies), that's basically what happens in modern Africa, but w/lions instead of Tarbos & wildebeests/wildebeest dung instead of sauropod carcasses ( https://ew.com/article/2013/01/15/africa-savannah-lion-lizard-shoebill-elephant/ ).

It's gonna take more than a blog post to convince me that in a desert biome a Velociraptor is going to turn its nose up at carrion to chase lizards instead. Just not buying it. Food preferences be damned, free food is free food. I've seen all manner of birds scavenge carcasses. From chickadees and woodpeckers to hawks and eagle.

The agama lizards hunting flies on sleeping lions is interesting but this one is a real stretch for me. There is no mention of a nearby carcass attracting flies as an alternate source of food for the lizards. Wildebeest dung is mentioned as the source of the flies but there is nothing to indicate that lions are sleeping next to dung piles and the lizards are choosing to hunt flies on lions instead of around the dung. In PP the Tarbosaurus are sleeping next to their kill. The lizard in hunting flies attracted to the kill but leaves it to hunt flies on the dinosaurs because a sleeping Tarbosaurus attracts more flies than a rotting carcass, apparently.

That link you posted does have another interesting bit of info though, about shoebill storks. "What happens is, the parents have two chicks. The second one is their kind of insurance policy and it's born a few days later. So if the first one dies or is wounded or gets preyed on, then they've got the second one as backup," Gunton says. "Once they get to a certain point and they know the older one is going to make it, the second one just gets ignored and left to die. Often the older sibling will attack it and the parents do nothing about it. It's quite shocking, but that's nature." A nice clear example of an extant dinosaur providing parental care, but with a limit. Would have liked to have seen more parental care in PP like that, although there are already enough dead babies and sad moments in the show.

To be fair, it is stated that "large dinosaurs keep on the move to try to cope with these harsh conditions[...& that...]open water attracts desert animals of every kind from many miles away" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZYHxdzuEl8 ).

I'm just finding it hard to believe that some of those large animals would be there at all, period. Water or not, why are they in this desert with no food? There are just some animals you don't find in some habitats for a reason. Throw some CGI shrubbery into those sand dunes. But your point is fair and since animals like elephants do inhabit desert regions I'm not going to dwell on it too much. Just seemed like a particularly barren desert to me.

I don't know why it has to be an issue that I have issues with the program when I have also been heaping praise upon it. No one needs to cherry pick examples from the natural world to convince me that PP just made some questionable choices. It seems like some people love the show so much, and want it to be perfect, that they're wearing love goggles and grasping at straws to justify every choice the show developers have made. I'm trying to look at it objectively here. PP is not perfect and that's fine, it comes pretty damn close.

[Bread]

To be fair (in reference to Velociraptor), hawks are similar (E.g. "Although Red-tailed hawks have been observed eating carrion, they prefer live prey": https://raptorresource.blogspot.com/2013/04/meet-stitch-red-tailed-hawk.html ). Also (in reference to flies), that's basically what happens in modern Africa, but w/lions instead of Tarbos & wildebeests/wildebeest dung instead of sauropod carcasses ( https://ew.com/article/2013/01/15/africa-savannah-lion-lizard-shoebill-elephant/ ).

It's gonna take more than a blog post to convince me that in a desert biome a Velociraptor is going to turn its nose up at carrion to chase lizards instead. Just not buying it. Food preferences be damned, free food is free food. I've seen all manner of birds scavenge carcasses. From chickadees and woodpeckers to hawks and eagle.

To add to the argument, Red-tailed hawks have numerous amount of small prey to hunt for, so live prey is an abundance for them. They will eat carrion as a last ditch effort. With numerous competitors (other birds such as owls, hawks, etc.), catching a small live animal could be a benefit, less risk to be fighting over a carcass with another counterpart.

So, I do agree with @Gwangi, somewhat odd that a Velociraptor would ignore a carcass  for a lizard, meanwhile its basic counterparts, as depicted in the show, would be the Tarbosaurus family and if anything another Velociraptor.

[Gwangi]

Time to look at Freshwater, which presents a bit of a paradox for me. It is perhaps my favorite episode. I won't really know until I've watched Forests again because that one might edge it out. My only real issue with Freshwater is the lack of actual aquatic animals, but I consider that a pretty big deal. The elasmosaurs are the only really aquatic animals and they're still marine animals venturing into brackish water. No freshwater fishes, crocodilians, etc. Beelzebufo is there but as far as amphibians go isn't especially aquatic, living life more like a pacman frog or toad. Missed opportunity to feature a spinosaur, Halszkaraptor, or some sort of bird, but at least Deinocheirus was there. 1 dead baby Masiakasaurus and we lose some pterosaur eggs.

Some of the best stories in the entire series come from this episode. I absolutely loved the cliff hunting Velociraptor but am disappointed that I didn't get to see them use their claw to restrain their prey (it would have helped them if they did in this scenario). The Velociraptor (and all the dromaeosaurs) really nail the look and lifestyle of these animals. They're ground-hawks. And anyone that says feathered dinosaurs aren't intimidating needs to look at these brilliantly realized CGI animals, they're absolutely chilling. I wouldn't want to tangle with a Velociraptor, even if it was the size of a turkey.

The T. rex display was wonderful, very reminiscent of an alligator's display. And again, anyone who thinks T. rex needs to roar to be scary has never heard the deep bellows and gurgles of an alligator or ratite. There's a heron rookery I regularly kayak near and the sounds coming out of that thing are absolutely prehistoric and terrifying. Seeing the T. rex standing next to the riverbank reminded me of Doug Henderson's painting of a standing T. rex. Paleoart come to life.



Speaking of paleoart come to life, the scene with the Deinocheirus was exactly that. In the "favorite paleoart of favorite species" thread I posted about Deinocheirus and the various artwork depicting it wading through the muck and how much I loved that imagery. And here it was in action. It couldn't have made me happier. I'll never kayak through my local swamps and marshlands without imagining a Deinocheirus dredging up pond weeds in the distance. And I can completely relate to it with regards to those blood sucking flies. Biting flies keep me indoors much more than I would like to be during the warmer months.

The Quetzalcoatlus scene is one of the most heartbreaking in the series, I really feel for that mother losing her eggs. It's interesting that they placed Quetzalcoatlus in South Africa instead of North America for no real apparent reason. I don't take issue with it, flying animals travel.

The Masiakasaurus had a much more appealing and conservative look to it than we usually see presented. I liked it and found it refreshing vs. the snaggletooth monster we usually see. This one gets my vote for a toy/figure, although I still like Safari's. The Beelzebufo looked fantastic and was one of the most realistic animals in the series. You could pass that off as a real animal to a lot of people. I saw some people on social media expressing skepticism over a frog eating a dinosaur but frogs will eat anything they can fit down their throat, and extant frogs are known to eat extant dinosaurs.

It was fun seeing an elasmosaur in a less traditional environment, but this scene was the weakest in the episode for me, with some questionable CGI. Nice to have an actual aquatic animal in an episode about an aquatic biome, even if it's a marine animal.

So there you go, there's my thoughts on Freshwater. No real complaints other than a misleading title. All of the behaviors we see from the animals are believable and grounded, and generalized enough as to not stretch plausibility. And the episode does not suffer for it, I see it listed as many people's favorites.

At the very least, and disregarding some creative choices, this show is just beautiful to watch. That much is undeniable. You can't put PP on in the background and expect yourself to get anything done. I tried folding laundry while watching this episode but couldn't take my eyes off the TV, even though I've seen it already. They better release this on physical media.   

[GojiraGuy1954]

Missed opportunity to feature a spinosaur, Halszkaraptor, or some sort of bird, but at least Deinocheirus was there.

There are no spinosaurs from when PrePlanet is set iirc

[GojiraGuy1954]

[Gwangi]

Missed opportunity to feature a spinosaur, Halszkaraptor, or some sort of bird, but at least Deinocheirus was there.

There are no spinosaurs from when PrePlanet is set iirc

I figured as much but didn't feel like looking it up. Still, it didn't have to be that way. I see no compelling reason why Prehistoric Planet has to represent such a small slice of time.

[HD-man]

I'm sure cherry picked examples can be picked out of the animal kingdom for every behavior I've mentioned. But since we're dealing with speculation on the part of extinct animals I prefer to see behaviors a little more thought out and in keeping with general behavior.

That's why I ask, to get a better understanding of where someone is coming from.

Thanks for sharing that Hallett piece, I had never seen that one before!

Anytime! It's from Dinosaurs: A Global View (which isn't great in terms of text or writing, but IS full of great paleoart).

But again, the parental care in these animals is limited and nothing like what we see in cetaceans, primates, elephants, or the plesiosaurs in Prehistoric Planet.

Just to clarify, I brought up shinglebacks b/c of their long-term bonds & Green iguanas b/c of how siblings protect each other from predators. Didn't wanna come off as if I was trying to make a 1-to-1 comparison w/PhP's tuarangisaurs, just explaining why their social behavior wasn't as big a stretch for me.

I'm not sure what the point here is.

That sharks w/long pregnancies might not be the best analogy for plesiosaurs, given the different reasons for their long pregnancies. Then again, I'm not confident in my knowledge of sharks either, so I could be wrong in my thinking.

It's gonna take more than a blog post to convince me that in a desert biome a Velociraptor is going to turn its nose up at carrion to chase lizards instead.

A blog post by an organization that "specializes in the preservation of falcons, eagles, ospreys, hawks, and owls", but I digress. In any case, I've read similar about eagles ("Both species readily accept livestock carrion and carcasses of foxes and coyotes, although some individuals may prefer live prey to carrion": https://www.google.com/search?q=%22may+prefer+live+prey%22&source=lnms&tbm=bks ).

Wildebeest dung is mentioned as the source of the flies but there is nothing to indicate that lions are sleeping next to dung piles and the lizards are choosing to hunt flies on lions instead of around the dung.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was implied by the statement that "lions eat the wildebeests and live on these rock outcrops called kopjes."

I don't know why it has to be an issue that I have issues with the program when I have also been heaping praise upon it.

No issue. Like I said earlier, asking helps me get a better understanding of where someone is coming from.

[Gwangi]

Anytime! It's from Dinosaurs: A Global View (which isn't great in terms of text or writing, but IS full of great paleoart).

Ugh! I actually have that book. So I've probably seen the picture but clearly it has been awhile.

Just to clarify, I brought up shinglebacks b/c of their long-term bonds & Green iguanas b/c of how siblings protect each other from predators. Didn't wanna come off as if I was trying to make a 1-to-1 comparison w/PhP's tuarangisaurs, just explaining why their social behavior wasn't as big a stretch for me.

Still seems like a stretch to me, even with parental care in reptiles.

That sharks w/long pregnancies might not be the best analogy for plesiosaurs, given the different reasons for their long pregnancies. Then again, I'm not confident in my knowledge of sharks either, so I could be wrong in my thinking.

I don't think cetaceans are the best analogy for plesiosaurs either. I just brought up sharks as an example of an animal with a long gestation period and few offspring that doesn't provide parental care. It seemed like the argument for parental care in plesiosaurs was hinged on the fact that they have a long gestation period and few young but that doesn't seem like a convincing argument to me, especially when you consider sharks.

A blog post by an organization that "specializes in the preservation of falcons, eagles, ospreys, hawks, and owls", but I digress. In any case, I've read similar about eagles ("Both species readily accept livestock carrion and carcasses of foxes and coyotes, although some individuals may prefer live prey to carrion": https://www.google.com/search?q=%22may+prefer+live+prey%22&source=lnms&tbm=bks ).

Yeah, I saw where the blog post came from. It's still just a one off remark that doesn't convince me that a lizard is worth more effort than a dead sauropod. The fact that birds of prey eat carrion at all is enough for me, whatever their preferences. But it's not worth arguing about. You think it's realistic behavior, and I do not. Not much else to say about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was implied by the statement that "lions eat the wildebeests and live on these rock outcrops called kopjes."

That's not how I'm comprehending it. "The wildebeests arrive, they eat and poop out tons and tons and tons of dung, and all these dung flies live off the dung." STOP. That's it's own independent statement. Next sentence, "Lions eat the wildebeests and live on these rock outcrops called kopjes, and on these kopjes also live these agama lizards". The two sentences are unrelated as far as dung goes. The abundance of flies is due to the wildebeest dung but it doesn't mean the dung is an accessible hunting ground for the lizard and in close proximity to the lions. I think that the lions sleeping on the rocky outcrops where the lizards live is the key. Are the wildebeests crapping on the rocky outcrops where the lions are sleeping and the lizards live? I doubt it. The fact that it's unclear anyway makes it poor evidence against my issue with PP. It's practically useless info without more details. 

[CarnotaurusKing]

Missed opportunity to feature a spinosaur, Halszkaraptor, or some sort of bird, but at least Deinocheirus was there.

There are no spinosaurs from when PrePlanet is set iirc

ahem Montanaspinus inexpectatus

[Dynomikegojira]

^I'm still hurt from that

[HD-man]

The fact that it's unclear anyway makes it poor evidence against my issue with PP. It's practically useless info without more details.

Fair enough. In retrospect, I should've 1st looked up the relevant video, especially since I've never watched that series before. Turns out said video is even more similar to PhP's lizard segment than I originally thought it would be when I read about it:

Missed opportunity to feature a spinosaur, Halszkaraptor, or some sort of bird, but at least Deinocheirus was there. No dead babies although we do lose some pterosaur eggs.

I too was hoping for Halszkaraptor ( http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=7869.msg319053#msg319053 ). Oh well. BTW, don't forget about the dead baby Masiakasaurus

I absolutely loved the cliff hunting Velociraptor but am disappointed that I didn't get to see them use their claw to restrain their prey (it would have helped them if they did in this scenario).

I too wish there was more RPR. There IS a little bit, but to your point, it's very blink-&-you-miss-it (~2:35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ939ZvSZEE ).

Speaking of paleoart come to life, the scene with the Deinocheirus was exactly that. In the "favorite paleoart of favorite species" thread I posted about Deinocheirus and the various artwork depicting it wading through the muck and how much I loved that imagery.

Would you say that PhP's Deinocheirus is up there w/your favorite depictions of Deinocheirus?

I figured as much but didn't feel like looking it up. Still, it didn't have to be that way. I see no compelling reason why Prehistoric Planet has to represent such a small slice of time.

Just in case you're still interested, here's 1 of the reasons why ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2022/05/31/prehistoric-planet-is-an-epic-achievement/ ):

I did have one question of my own. After watching a couple of the episodes, I was curious how much of what we see is actual nature footage and how much is CGI. He explained that one of the reasons they chose to focus on the Maastrichtian timeframe is that the environments are the closest to what we still have today. "We wanted to use real backplates, real environments, because Mother Nature is still a very, very good CGI artist. She can still do better work than we can."

[Gwangi]

Fair enough. In retrospect, I should've 1st looked up the relevant video, especially since I've never watched that series before. Turns out said video is even more similar to PhP's lizard segment than I originally thought it would be when I read about it:

Oh wow, even the narration in that clip is virtually identical to what we hear in PP. I had never seen that series either. Still nothing to indicate that there is a carcass or other source of fly in the immediate area. Honestly the scene in PP didn't even need a carcass and had it not been there I wouldn't have had an issue either the lizards or Velociraptor pursuing a more difficult to acquire meal.

I too was hoping for Halszkaraptor ( http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=7869.msg319053#msg319053 ). Oh well. BTW, don't forget about the dead baby Masiakasaurus

Oops! Thanks for pointing that out, I edited my post. So much for taking notes. 

Would you say that PhP's Deinocheirus is up there w/your favorite depictions of Deinocheirus?

Yes, I should think so. Although I found it's feathers a bit too shaggy and waterlogged for my liking. Because of that I still prefer this one.

Just in case you're still interested, here's 1 of the reasons why ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2022/05/31/prehistoric-planet-is-an-epic-achievement/ ): I did have one question of my own. After watching a couple of the episodes, I was curious how much of what we see is actual nature footage and how much is CGI. He explained that one of the reasons they chose to focus on the Maastrichtian timeframe is that the environments are the closest to what we still have today. "We wanted to use real backplates, real environments, because Mother Nature is still a very, very good CGI artist. She can still do better work than we can."

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. I'll have to read that link when I have more time. Makes me wonder how they'll do a sequel series if they choose a different time period. Maybe with a bigger budget they can afford to alter the environment more.

[Flaffy]

Marco Makes is producing some PP inspired "rubbersaurs". Unfortunately the production run of these remains incredibly limited, and it's near impossible to get them, as they sell out within 5 seconds of going live... I tried ordering a TLW velociraptor from him a few months back, but it was already sold out by the time I reloaded his Etsy store.

He also has sculpts of:
- Mononykus
- Corythoraptor
- Tarbosaurus
- Tuarangisaurus

[Bread]

Those look terrific. Been watching his instagram lately to see him advertise when they'll be available to order.

I am surprised he's able to market the packaging very reminiscent to the show?

[Duna]

I am surprised he's able to market the packaging very reminiscent to the show?

I think I read in Facebook that he will put in the package: "Mesozoic planet" due to copyright reasons.

[Concavenator]

Interesting, is his Etsy store the only site site where you can get these? @Flaffy

Anyways, if they sell so well, I hope he will consider releasing more copies.

[Flaffy]

Interesting, is his Etsy store the only site site where you can get these? @Flaffy

Anyways, if they sell so well, I hope he will consider releasing more copies.

Yeah pretty much. And I remember reading somewhere that this run will only consist of 10 of each figure. So it'll be a mad dash for sure.

[Gothmog the Baryonyx]

I finally got round to watching it and finished the last episode last night, but I'm guessing no one wants to discsmuss it anymore? 

I thought eahmch eosiode was better than the one before it and was generally incredibly impressed. I do wish I hadn't know  about the surprise Therizinosaurus beforehand though. I still have loads of Facebook groups on snooze as I can't unsnooze them which I did during my attempt to avoid spoilers.

I was actually glad the baby dinosaur and pterosaurs had such high infant mortality rate and it was actually shown. And I'm glad the way all of the animals were depicted, though I think the Deinocheirus could have been a little less fluffy. The Carnotaurus being a giant bowerbird was brilliant.

[Dynomikegojira]

I finally got round to watching it and finished the last episode last night, but I'm guessing no one wants to discsmuss it anymore? 

I thought eahmch eosiode was better than the one before it and was generally incredibly impressed. I do wish I hadn't know  about the surprise Therizinosaurus beforehand though. I still have loads of Facebook groups on snooze as I can't unsnooze them which I did during my attempt to avoid spoilers.

I was actually glad the baby dinosaur and pterosaurs had such high infant mortality rate and it was actually shown. And I'm glad the way all of the animals were depicted, though I think the Deinocheirus could have been a little less fluffy. The Carnotaurus being a giant bowerbird was brilliant.

Glad you enjoyed it we're just waiting for a hopeful season 2 announcement.

[Gwangi]

I finally got round to watching it and finished the last episode last night, but I'm guessing no one wants to discsmuss it anymore? 

I thought eahmch eosiode was better than the one before it and was generally incredibly impressed. I do wish I hadn't know  about the surprise Therizinosaurus beforehand though. I still have loads of Facebook groups on snooze as I can't unsnooze them which I did during my attempt to avoid spoilers.

I was actually glad the baby dinosaur and pterosaurs had such high infant mortality rate and it was actually shown. And I'm glad the way all of the animals were depicted, though I think the Deinocheirus could have been a little less fluffy. The Carnotaurus being a giant bowerbird was brilliant.

I still want to discuss it. And I still plan on posting my reviews for the episodes I haven't re-watched yet, whether or not the hype has died down. Happy to see you share your thoughts!