HAOLONGGOOD - New For 2023

[Faelrin]

@Sim I'd like to add to what @Flaffy said about the skin.

Spoiler

We ultimately have a relatively small sample size all things considered, but from what we do know of ceratopsian skin so far, there is nothing quite like crocodilian integument found yet, at least as far as what is depicted on the backside of the Pentaceratops figure. The closest analogue might be with some thyreophorans, maybe Ceratosaurus as well.

I did extensive research into ceratopsian skin as of late for my Medusaceratops review. I listed the papers of interest in my review, but here is most of them (rest is in the review):

Worth noting for some of these I did request and receive copies of from @Halichoeres regarding those that were paywalled.
Centrosaurus skin by Barnum Brown, 1917 (AMNH 5427, and several others)
Centrosaurus skin by Richard Swan Lull, 1933
Psittacosaurus, and other ceratopsian skin by Bell, et al, 2022 (specimen SMF R 4970)
Chasmosaurus juvenile, Currie, et al, 2016 (specimen UALVP 52613)
Chasmosaurus adult, Charles M. Sternberg, 1925 (specimen CMN 2245)
See my review for links on Triceratops, Protoceratops, etc.

Though it pertains to theropods, it may be also worth looking at the 2022 paper from Hendrickx et al, and the supplementary material as it details the current published evidence for those primarily covered in with scales. Both ceratopsians and theropods for the most part (based on our current sample size) do seem to have a reoccurring theme of having a mix of basement scales, and feature scales.

That's also ignoring the many hadrosaurid mummies, and impressions, and a few other samples out there I think from Stegosauria, and Sauropoda, which I do not believe reflect crocodilian like integument, but I'd need to dig those up again.

[close]

Again I'd like to say that the sample size is small, and there is potentially something like that could be discovered someday (outside thyreophora), but who knows, and it is very speculative, and not really reflective of the current data. I don't think it is a huge deal at the end of the day though.

[vampiredesign]

Thank you very much for your comments and also for your criticism.We accept criticism.We will strive to do better.It's a starting point issue, right? Compared to other brands, we don't have as much startup capital and investors.The only advantage is having our own factory and developing this brand while completing other orders.We are just starting out in terms of professional talent and funding, and we need everyone's understanding.Starting from the new year, we will learn from last year's experience and mistakes.Thank you very much for your support. Thank you very much.

[ceratopsian]

We look forward very much to seeing (and buying) your products in 2024, V @vampiredesign. Especially the wonderful Alamosaurus.  Best wishes for a happy and prosperous New Year.

Thank you very much for your comments and also for your criticism.We accept criticism.We will strive to do better.It's a starting point issue, right? Compared to other brands, we don't have as much startup capital and investors.The only advantage is having our own factory and developing this brand while completing other orders.We are just starting out in terms of professional talent and funding, and we need everyone's understanding.Starting from the new year, we will learn from last year's experience and mistakes.Thank you very much for your support. Thank you very much.

[Quiversaurus]

Thank you very much for your comments and also for your criticism.We accept criticism.We will strive to do better.It's a starting point issue, right? Compared to other brands, we don't have as much startup capital and investors.The only advantage is having our own factory and developing this brand while completing other orders.We are just starting out in terms of professional talent and funding, and we need everyone's understanding.Starting from the new year, we will learn from last year's experience and mistakes.Thank you very much for your support. Thank you very much.

Wishing you a prosperous and peaceful new 2024 ahead, V @vampiredesign . I hope the comments/criticisms are useful to you and your team. Just know that we are all very glad for HLG and the work you've been doing this whole year in 2023. The only way is up, and I'm sure you'll hit even greater milestones this year (:

[thomasw100]

T @thomasw100 I can't agree with that. Many of Safari Ltd's figures are scientifically rigorous to the current evidence (when the figures were initially sculpted, as science marches on), but cost far less then PNSO's. Especially sculptor Doug Watson's many beautiful, but mostly now sadly retired ceratopsians. Their dromaeosaurids are also good examples of this. Might also be worth mentioning that Safari Ltd has been ahead of the games on the lips (extra oral tissue) debate long before PNSO, and other companies aside from Creative Beast Studio, for whatever it is worth. That said I'm pretty sure PNSO's are cheaper domestically, but more expensive elsewhere for numerous unspecified factors. Higher paint quality and articulation could also increase the cost, but that doesn't necessarily have a correlation or direct bearing on whether certain details where sculpted based on the current evidence or not.

As far as Halonggood's figures many anatomical quirks (minor and a few major), I wonder if access to scientific material/papers could just be a matter of a barrier to entry issue, among others? Most papers that I'm aware of are in English would could come with language barrier issues, unless translated properly, never mind how many are frequently paywalled.

That said, I also don't think there's anything wrong with offering constructive criticism, or pointing out legitimate (however minor) anatomical issues based on the current data, especially if one one is being respectful about it. I imagine the folks criticizing these things are also doing it because they enjoy the figures but want to see things improve going forward. I also find it educational when folks point out things like this, like the length of Dilophosaurus torso (though I did pick up on it with the new Cyberzoic sculpt), or the bumps on the Sinoceratops frill, etc. I would not know some of these things without going of my way and explicitly doing research on it (like I have for my more recent reviews).

@Flaffy is also right in that there's a way to have nuance to this, in that yes one can like their figures, and still find some objective anatomical faults with them, and just because one finds an issue or whatever doesn't mean they are saying the figure is bad. Flaffy and other members here have even gone out of their way to share references, if not papers, and not just gripe about something being incorrect. I love their Ouranosaurus for example, beautifully done, and one I've wanted on my wishlist for years, but the hands were incorrect on an objective level. Thankfully they later went on and revised this, something very few companies do these days (especially without outright replacing and reselling a new sculpt), instead of just fixing the issue to begin with. What they did should be commended.

Every time there is some discussion regarding anatomical issues (minor or major), there is this push-back against it, almost as if it were toxic positivity. I don't see folks being rude or otherwise outwardly hostile, etc with this criticism here, other then bringing it up semi-frequently, unlike what happens to other brands (Schleich, Takara Tomy, Mojo, Mattel, etc), as Flaffy pointed out, which would definitely push away fans of the brand. We're probably all guilty of it, or at least most of us in varying degrees. And dare I say it, some of the folks against the criticism here, have been rather hypocritical in how outright hostile to those brands in some of those particular threads in the past and recently, going as far as calling their figures awful, trash, etc. What goes on here and PNSO's threads for example is absolutely much more tactful and thought out much of the time. However I also do see Gwangi's counter point that some folks here could be doing it too much (rather they are bothered by it or not), and it could be burning some folks out. In fact when I first joined this forum back in 2016, it's been an ever present attitude and atmosphere here, in which I've gotten accustomed to, but it certainly could be pushing folks away (actually in which it did for several accounts in the past).


@Gwangi That's honestly some good food for thought. I've been watching a lot of the Skeleton Crew as of late, and one can certainly learn from them in more ways then one regarding things like this.

Perhaps a solution could be reached. Folks could try to lessen the amount of criticism that they do here (particularly over rather minor things, that most folks are able to look past, aka the "nitpicks", unless for the purposes of a review), or perhaps even just spoiler tag it with a warning. Perhaps alternatively folks could (temporarily) use the ignore feature rather then outright abandoning a thread (or even outright chastising and targeting folks) because there's some (re-occurring) discussion with criticism involved? In any case it sounds we could all do some introspection on how we could do better here for the future.

Hi there, in my statement I referred to several cost factors at the same time. They include 1) scientific accuracy, 2) quality of the sculpt, 3) quality of the paint application and 4) quality of production. Each of these factors contributes to the total costs of the product. Maybe Safari models are quite scientifically accurate, but in terms of the other 3 cost factors they are of lower quality compared to Haolonggood.

[thomasw100]

Thank you very much for your comments and also for your criticism.We accept criticism.We will strive to do better.It's a starting point issue, right? Compared to other brands, we don't have as much startup capital and investors.The only advantage is having our own factory and developing this brand while completing other orders.We are just starting out in terms of professional talent and funding, and we need everyone's understanding.Starting from the new year, we will learn from last year's experience and mistakes.Thank you very much for your support. Thank you very much.

I think that many people do understand this. We see that you aim at the highest quality in terms of scientific accuracy, quality of sculpt, quality of paint application and quality of production, but you probably have not the funds for achieving everything yet. The scientific accuracy is a field where this community can assist you and I think it was a good decision that you have started to involve people on this forum. This will reduce some of your costs for research and this will hopefully translate in you being able to keep a more modest price level compared to other companies. Personally, I can live well with some minor scientific inaccuracies when a model is great in terms of sculpt, paint application and production quality.

[Samrukia]

let's just admit that company of the year is Haolonggood

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

let's just admit that company of the year is Haolonggood

Best newer company perhaps? There are a few older companies with fine products and have proven themselves as able to stick around for years and consistently deliver product. Something to consider.

[Bread]

Here's some more in hand photos of the Sinoceratops, blue variant. Photos can be found through Paleofigures:



Also, some pictures of the Alamosaurus base:





I don't care much for the base, but it does look good!

[thomasw100]

The Sinoceratops has a really really nice sculpt and a beautiful paint application. But then there is this seamline where the head is apparently connected to the main body, which in my view ruins the look of the model in side view. Honestly I am increasingly more bothered by such issues of production quality than some small scientific inaccuracies. You do not see these thiongs on PNSO models any more. If Haolonggood should focus on one thing in the near future this would be to really get rid of such shortcomings in the area of production quality. Sorry to say that but this will be a pass for me because of that seamline. The only option would be to commission one of those lip makers to cover that seamline and repaint that area. Need to think if this will be worth the investment. I will definitely wait until some reviews become available.

[Dusty Wren]

The Sinoceratops has a really really nice sculpt and a beautiful paint application. But then there is this seamline where the head is apparently connected to the main body, which in my view ruins the look of the model in side view. Honestly I am increasingly more bothered by such issues of production quality than some small scientific inaccuracies.

Seam lines aren't production quality issues, though. They represent physical limitations of the molding and casting process. Unless something is 3D printed, it's going to have a seam line somewhere, and probably more than one.

Companies can sometimes hide seam lines in less obtrusive places on a model, though it's not always possible for every sculpt. It's fine if you don't like the look of this particular seam line, but this isn't a failing on Haolonggood's part.

[thomasw100]

The Sinoceratops has a really really nice sculpt and a beautiful paint application. But then there is this seamline where the head is apparently connected to the main body, which in my view ruins the look of the model in side view. Honestly I am increasingly more bothered by such issues of production quality than some small scientific inaccuracies.

Seam lines aren't production quality issues, though. They represent physical limitations of the molding and casting process. Unless something is 3D printed, it's going to have a seam line somewhere, and probably more than one.

Companies can sometimes hide seam lines in less obtrusive places on a model, though it's not always possible for every sculpt. It's fine if you don't like the look of this particular seam line, but this isn't a failing on Haolonggood's part.

So if they would be unavoidable, why for example do we not see them on some of the latest PNSO models, even not on the really large Alamosaurus? And also not on some other Haolonggood models?

[thomasw100]

Lana time shop has now updated the pictures for the three paint variants of the Alamosaurus. Thus it is now confirmed that variant C will not be the brown paint scheme we saw earlier, but that more gray-blue one with some subtle stripes. And it appears that the base can now be ordered separately for 15 USD.

[Bread]

So if they would be unavoidable, why for example do we not see them on some of the latest PNSO models, even not on the really large Alamosaurus? And also not on some other Haolonggood models?

This figure is less than $20, I'd take the one visible seamline if it means we're still receiving high quality models for such price.

[thomasw100]

So if they would be unavoidable, why for example do we not see them on some of the latest PNSO models, even not on the really large Alamosaurus? And also not on some other Haolonggood models?

This figure is less than $20, I'd take the one visible seamline if it means we're still receiving high quality models for such price.

And I would happily pay 25 or 30 USD if this would mean no visible seamlines.

[Dusty Wren]

I just picked up my PNSO Deinocheirus, and it has seam lines around both arms and running down the body through the middle of each leg. I don't own the PNSO Alamosaurus, but in the DinosDragons review video, you can clearly see seam lines down the middle of each osteoderm row and across the belly. The seam lines are there; they're just well disguised.

The process of molding 3D figures is complex, and some shapes are really, really hard to create molds for. I'm sure Haolonggood does their best to make the lines as unobtrusive as possible.     

[ceratopsian]

The seamline on the neck of the Sinoceratops is much more obvious because of the head tilt to one side.  There is one on the Kosmoceratops (received today) - but it's tucked away more or less out of sight, obscured by the head itself and the frill, unless you look up at the neck from a low angle.

[thomasw100]

I just picked up my PNSO Deinocheirus, and it has seam lines around both arms and running down the body through the middle of each leg. I don't own the PNSO Alamosaurus, but in the DinosDragons review video, you can clearly see seam lines down the middle of each osteoderm row and across the belly. The seam lines are there; they're just well disguised.

The process of molding 3D figures is complex, and some shapes are really, really hard to create molds for. I'm sure Haolonggood does their best to make the lines as unobtrusive as possible.     

I have the PNSO Deinocheirus as well and here we are talking about very thin fine lines which are well covered by painting over them and some dry brushing I think. Essentially you need a magnifying glass to see them. I do also have the PNSO Alamosaurus and the features you refer to do not look like seamlines. But the seamlines on that Sinoceratops jump straight into your eyes, even from some distance.

[Bread]

I just picked up my PNSO Deinocheirus, and it has seam lines around both arms and running down the body through the middle of each leg. I don't own the PNSO Alamosaurus, but in the DinosDragons review video, you can clearly see seam lines down the middle of each osteoderm row and across the belly. The seam lines are there; they're just well disguised.

The process of molding 3D figures is complex, and some shapes are really, really hard to create molds for. I'm sure Haolonggood does their best to make the lines as unobtrusive as possible.     

I have the PNSO Deinocheirus as well and here we are talking about very thin fine lines which are well covered by painting over them and some dry brushing I think. Essentially you need a magnifying glass to see them. I do also have the PNSO Alamosaurus and the features you refer to do not look like seamlines. But the seamlines on that Sinoceratops jump straight into your eyes, even from some distance.

Sorry but I genuinely have to disagree with you here.

The Deinocheirus arms have an apparent seamline that does not transition smoothly. They're not so unnoticeable that you need a magnifying glass to see them. The Therizinosaurus has this apparent for the head as well. It can be seen on PNSO's renders for the figures as well.

I do not have the PNSO Alamosaurus in hand yet, so no comment regarding the seamlines.

So to say the Haolonggood Sinoceratops' seamline is incomparable to PNSO's is unfair.

They're apparent, and personally I'm not complaining that these seamlines are there, but more so it's pretty unfair to point out this versus another company that also has the same in some of their models...

[Dusty Wren]

There are different types of seam lines. The most obvious ones are going to be those where two pieces that were molded separately are glued together. That's the seam line you see on the Deinocheirus' arms and the Sinoceratops' head. I certainly don't need a magnifying glass to see the obvious seams on the Deinocheirus.



Seams where two pieces of the same mold come together will be more subtle.

Regardless, I already said it's okay if you don't like the seam line on the Sinoceratops. I didn't buy PNSO's Livyatan for the same reason. I'm pushing back on the idea you proposed in your original post--that seam lines are somehow a production quality issue. They're not. Seam lines are a reality of molding and casting, and Haolonggood clearly did try to hide this particular seam line by putting it in a place where it would be mostly hidden by the frill.