Forum etiquette

[Bread]

Thank you all for providing some feedback and information regarding my question. I still consider myself to be a new member, so this does definitely help me quite a bit. Hopefully it will help others. 

[suspsy]

I have to say that I have been a bit disappointed in the Forum lately.

Don't really enjoy having to scroll through page after page of heated exchanges in search of news, images or helpful discussions and information about new Paleo figure releases or fossil discoveries.

As someone who actively tries to avoid the wave of conflict, confrontation and mean-spirited baiting and general nasty behaviour towards others that the anonymity of the online environment seems to enable, seeing the proliferation of it in such quantity and for such a prolonged period in post after post here is not my idea of fun.

Think I'll be taking a break for a while and checking out a few blogs and YouTube channels for the type of content and news I initially joined up here in search of.

I'm not bothered or turned off by the conflict at all. Part of it is undoubtedly because I actively seek out conflict online (my Facebook hobbies include duking it out with science deniers and other nefarious characters), but I too like the DTF to be peaceful. I believe that human nature effectively dictates that disagreements are bound to arise now and then, no matter the setting. Sure, things have been particularly heated the past few days and a few individuals have been penalized for it, but it'll all calm down soon enough. Things are going to be just fine. Especially because there's going to be another reveal of 2021 CollectA toys tonight! And hopefully Safari will finally reveal their wares soon as well.

Also, I think that @dinotoyforum has done a good job of policing things lately. I'd be lying if I said that I have always fully agreed with him on his decisions in the past (I do agree with everything he's done here in this thread lately), but I damn well appreciate an admin who's hands on and sticks to his decisions once they've been made. 

[Rain]

People just need to question whether they actually care about whatever argument they're making or if they're just arguing for the sake of arguing. So many of these recent arguments just devolve into adults making personal remarks towards each other over plastic toys...

[Dean Nonychus]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question. I thought about making a thread, but some could say it could belong to the "Forum Etiquette" thread.

How do you feel when newer members insert themselves into conversations? Of course these conversations are on topic and relate to the thread, and are positive. Meaning they never consist of negative attitude towards an individual or others.

I myself am always worried about inserting a post mid conversation of other members. I may have questions or state my own opinion, but I feel bad if it seems out of place or is rather just a question. I am never too worried/afraid to comment what I want (of course following the rules of the forum and staying on topic), but I do tend to second guess myself before I insert a post.
Also, some tips on how others and myself can insert one's self into the conversation. Thank you!

Edit: I tried my best to word it carefully. Sorry if it is confusing.

I know what you mean. I myself have been in this group for a few months now but went through a while of browsing but not actively contributing to conversations because I'd worry at times it wasn't my place or something to join in until I'd proven myself. Then I realised, if I never post, I'll never stop being that on the edges newbie. So I've given myself permission to contribute to conversations as long as I'm keeping them on the same track and my contribution actually adds something. It's easy to get bogged down in imposter syndrome but I feel like the vast majority of people are too lovely to ever make me feel like that.

[Bread]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question. I thought about making a thread, but some could say it could belong to the "Forum Etiquette" thread.

How do you feel when newer members insert themselves into conversations? Of course these conversations are on topic and relate to the thread, and are positive. Meaning they never consist of negative attitude towards an individual or others.

I myself am always worried about inserting a post mid conversation of other members. I may have questions or state my own opinion, but I feel bad if it seems out of place or is rather just a question. I am never too worried/afraid to comment what I want (of course following the rules of the forum and staying on topic), but I do tend to second guess myself before I insert a post.
Also, some tips on how others and myself can insert one's self into the conversation. Thank you!

Edit: I tried my best to word it carefully. Sorry if it is confusing.

I know what you mean. I myself have been in this group for a few months now but went through a while of browsing but not actively contributing to conversations because I'd worry at times it wasn't my place or something to join in until I'd proven myself. Then I realised, if I never post, I'll never stop being that on the edges newbie. So I've given myself permission to contribute to conversations as long as I'm keeping them on the same track and my contribution actually adds something. It's easy to get bogged down in imposter syndrome but I feel like the vast majority of people are too lovely to ever make me feel like that.

Exactly, I was second guessing myself when I started to post when I first became a member. I still keep track of myself and try to not get carried away when posting, however it is not as stressful as it was before.

This is why I figured some of these posts, questions, and information could help new members.

[DinoToyForum]

It's really helpful and enlightening hearing from the perspective of newbies, so thank you for sharing your thoughts.  Posting on the forum may have become so routine for veterans that we do it without much thought, but putting ourselves 'out there' is actually quite brave and we probably forget that it must be daunting for new members to join in.

So, I'm glad newbies are committing to take the plunge! Please don't feel like the DTF is an exclusive club, it isn't, and everyone will have a different point of view so the more the merrier I say! If it feels in some way exclusionary then is there anything we can do to be more welcoming? Or is it just the way it has to be, as there will always be an existing in-group in any community, I guess.

[Bread]

It's really helpful and enlightening hearing from the perspective of newbies, so thank you for sharing your thoughts.  Posting on the forum may have become so routine for veterans that we do it without much thought, but putting ourselves 'out there' is actually quite brave and we probably forget that it must be daunting for new members to join in.

So, I'm glad newbies are committing to take the plunge! Please don't feel like the DTF is an exclusive club, it isn't, and everyone will have a different point of view so the more the merrier I say! If it feels in some way exclusionary then is there anything we can do to be more welcoming? Or is it just the way it has to be, as there will always be an existing in-group in any community, I guess.

I wouldn't say that I have felt that the DTF is an exclusive club. I actually think that is an over statement. It is more of an individual's perspective really. I have always been shy and awkward, as a result it affects everything to do with socializing. Although this is the internet, I still remain the same way I have always been. So, I wouldn't say this forum feels like an exclusive club. Just everyone has their way of interacting with others. I definitely would say after reading through all the feedback of my previous questions/post, I feel more comfortable posting on the forum. So I thank you all for the information you have provided.

I also want to state that I have been enjoying my time being a member of the forum. This is a nice and welcoming community, thanks everyone.

[DinoToyForum]

That's good!

[Shonisaurus]

It's really helpful and enlightening hearing from the perspective of newbies, so thank you for sharing your thoughts.  Posting on the forum may have become so routine for veterans that we do it without much thought, but putting ourselves 'out there' is actually quite brave and we probably forget that it must be daunting for new members to join in.

So, I'm glad newbies are committing to take the plunge! Please don't feel like the DTF is an exclusive club, it isn't, and everyone will have a different point of view so the more the merrier I say! If it feels in some way exclusionary then is there anything we can do to be more welcoming? Or is it just the way it has to be, as there will always be an existing in-group in any community, I guess.

I wouldn't say that I have felt that the DTF is an exclusive club. I actually think that is an over statement. It is more of an individual's perspective really. I have always been shy and awkward, as a result it affects everything to do with socializing. Although this is the internet, I still remain the same way I have always been. So, I wouldn't say this forum feels like an exclusive club. Just everyone has their way of interacting with others. I definitely would say after reading through all the feedback of my previous questions/post, I feel more comfortable posting on the forum. So I thank you all for the information you have provided.

I also want to state that I have been enjoying my time being a member of the forum. This is a nice and welcoming community, thanks everyone.

The DTF forum is an open forum for all people and all DTF members (both visible and those who do not participate in it but belong to the DTF) have the same rank, genius and notoriety as the rest of the members. Of course, you have to comply with the rules of the DTF as happens in many Internet forums, I believe that in almost all and honestly nothing happens to anyone and here we are all the same obviously, respecting the hierarchy of the Administrator and the moderators.

All DTF members are equally welcome and all are necessary as they enrich and give prestige to DTF.

[Libraraptor]

It's really helpful and enlightening hearing from the perspective of newbies, so thank you for sharing your thoughts.  Posting on the forum may have become so routine for veterans that we do it without much thought, but putting ourselves 'out there' is actually quite brave and we probably forget that it must be daunting for new members to join in.

So, I'm glad newbies are committing to take the plunge! Please don't feel like the DTF is an exclusive club, it isn't, and everyone will have a different point of view so the more the merrier I say! If it feels in some way exclusionary then is there anything we can do to be more welcoming? Or is it just the way it has to be, as there will always be an existing in-group in any community, I guess.

I wouldn't say that I have felt that the DTF is an exclusive club. I actually think that is an over statement. It is more of an individual's perspective really. I have always been shy and awkward, as a result it affects everything to do with socializing. Although this is the internet, I still remain the same way I have always been. So, I wouldn't say this forum feels like an exclusive club. Just everyone has their way of interacting with others. I definitely would say after reading through all the feedback of my previous questions/post, I feel more comfortable posting on the forum. So I thank you all for the information you have provided.

I also want to state that I have been enjoying my time being a member of the forum. This is a nice and welcoming community, thanks everyone.

The DTF forum is an open forum for all people and all DTF members (both visible and those who do not participate in it but belong to the DTF) have the same rank, genius and notoriety as the rest of the members. Of course, you have to comply with the rules of the DTF as happens in many Internet forums, I believe that in almost all and honestly nothing happens to anyone and here we are all the same obviously, respecting the hierarchy of the Administrator and the moderators.

All DTF members are equally welcome and all are necessary as they enrich and give prestige to DTF.

Amen. I would just change  "notoriety " for a more more positive term,  like '"reputation" for example.

[Halichoeres]

@Bread I think you've performed a service for other new members. I can see the unfamiliar format, coupled with the familiarity between established members, being a bit daunting. I'm always very happy to see new members diving into conversations, personally.

Others have said that the forum is a lot less hostile than other places online, and I have to agree. YouTube comments, Facebook, Twitter, even DeviantArt can be a lot nastier. At the same time, I think we shouldn't be complacent with that--we can always be better than 'not as bad as elsewhere.' So just a nod to admin and mod team for what is, yes, a usually thankless job and for working to keep the place friendly and welcoming.

[Bread]

@Bread I think you've performed a service for other new members. I can see the unfamiliar format, coupled with the familiarity between established members, being a bit daunting. I'm always very happy to see new members diving into conversations, personally.

Others have said that the forum is a lot less hostile than other places online, and I have to agree. YouTube comments, Facebook, Twitter, even DeviantArt can be a lot nastier. At the same time, I think we shouldn't be complacent with that--we can always be better than 'not as bad as elsewhere.' So just a nod to admin and mod team for what is, yes, a usually thankless job and for working to keep the place friendly and welcoming.

Thank you, and yes I hope new members do acknowledge some parts of this thread. It is helpful to read that this forum welcomes all new members and that they can insert themselves into any conversation as long as it sticks to the topic and follows forum rules.

I'd like to thank everyone who has been contributing to the question I have asked, as well as the members who have always been welcoming, kind, and thoughtful of others. This is a forum, and perhaps you could say a growing family.

The admins and mods definitely deserve a thank you for the work they do for making this a friendly environment.

[Libraraptor]

Yes, I think this is still a good place to be, much more friendly and welcoming than cesspits like YouTube or Twitter.
But I think we can still do better than "being better than ..." - it´s in our hands to establish a climate in which everyone feels welcomed and treated fairly as long as he or she is posting according to the rules.

[Kapitaenosavrvs]

This Forum is awonderful Place for me, because i do not have People around me (Also i am not that good with People), that are interested in prehistoric Animals oder Animal Figures. Or anything like that. So, this here is far away from typical social media Stuff and i try to be friendly. As far as Opinions go, is is okay to be upset about something. We are emotionally invested in this Topic. But for Example: Nanmu Figures or Dinosaur Figures that are related to JP/JW in Style and Art, are completely boring to me. I try not to post "I don't like that because..." in these Threads. There is no reason to it. Fights, being upset, being angry, being angry with yourself and so on are the, or can be things we have in the End. I do not need that. I have enough of these things.

I really appreciate the way of wanting a calm Place. it is completely normal to have Fights over something, but i try to lean back, breathe and ask myself how important it is now, that i have to say how bad the Opinion of someone else on a Figure is. Right. Its not. And its not always this simple, i know that.

Yes, I think this is still a good place to be, much more friendly and welcoming than cesspits like YouTube or Twitter.
But I think we can still do better than "being better than ..." - it´s in our hands to establish a climate in which everyone feels welcomed and treated fairly as long as he or she is posting according to the rules.

Well said.

[Libraraptor]

To me it´s also a little bit of downshifting here. You are not screamed at with"react!" or "buy it!" or "revolt!" appeals. You can decide what to share, where to react and calmly wait. The Forum format is not as stressy as Facebook et al, and the topic under which we all gathered is so gloriously unworldly, yet in the middle of this society,  and relaxing.
Personal sensitivities are more easily shared among kindred spirits, but oversharing one´s self-hate and struggles sometimes embarrasses me. Only if one is looking for a solution, wailing should be allowed, unless wailing itself is the solution. Then it should be marked as this.

[Libraraptor]

We are happy to have you here.
We are not that conservative village in Lower Saxony.  We do not mob someone or laugh at someone here. Religion, gender, politics and stuff like this should not play the main role here, yet we are open-minded, liberal and tolerant.

Should I ever see this attitude seriously in danger, I leave. Should you ever witness something like that going on towards you, forward it to the mods who take care of it.

We care for everything paleontology and we take care of each other by posting kindly and friendly. And if anyone steps out of this line, he or she (m/w/d)  is likely to be ostracized, banned or even excluded for this.

Being asked for one´s gender is a normal question that itself does by no means intend to aim at the one being asked with bad intentions. If one does not even allow this quite normal and natural question being asked, I regard that a part of cancel culture.

Saying this does not mean I don´t like hetero persons, trans persons, white persons, persons of color,  gay persons or lesbian persons. It just means I don´t like people acting like a prima donna.
And when - for instance -  a gay person behaves like an a*****e, I don´t hate him being gay but  being an asshole.

If my wife behaves like this, I hate it, too - but not her.
We should learn to divide behavior from the person who reveals it.
Feeling unwell with oversharing does not mean I don´t understand the hardship of those who share.
I have sent you the reasons for that and much more via PM.
And of course I´ll fulfill my part of the deal. How do you even come to the idea I would not?!

Why did you have those mot*********s grind you down?
Why did you have them stop you from drawing! ?
Get back to the desk, do great palaeoart you (and this forum) like, collect figures uninhibitedly.
Be proud to be yourself. Stand for yourself.

Finally, please allow me to give you a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdHJurX0yVA

[DinoToyForum]

Firstly. I'm glad you're looking for help – I can't begin to imagine how it must feel to be the victim of such vile behaviour.

If you find my struggles embarrassing, the things I have gone through in the palaeontology community, then so be it.

Nobody here has said that your struggles are embarrassing or that you are embarrassing. Have they?

My behaviour is simply a reaction to forum rule 7, no politics are allowed, in most palaeontology related spaces my identity would usually be seen as political, self-love among people like me would be usually seen as political, I do not want to break the rules so I do my best to obey the rules.

Your identity isn't political. Just because a bunch of vocal transphobes on social media think it is, doesn't make it so. Rule 7 is there so we can take preemptive action to stop petty bickering about party affiliation and other actual political talk that has no place on the forum. That's all.

I know people have been saying degrading things about people like me on this forum and haven't been banned so it seems to me that their view is seen as right.

I would never knowingly allow discrimination to stand without repercussion. If this has occurred it has gone over my head, because saying degrading things is a personal attack, no matter what the context. If there is a case I've missed then please point it out to me so I can take action. I recall some attacks in personal messages, which, for obvious reasons are difficult to moderate. But, to my knowledge I banned all of the offending members on that occasion.

I didn't want to go on the forum anymore but I felt like I had to respond since you are embarrassed by me.

Nope, not embarrassed at all, just glad to have you on the forum.

[Shonisaurus]

I am glad that you are back at the DTF. That behavior on the part of some people against you is vomiting. In the DTF if someone were to write something against you, in a transphobic way, both the moderator and any DTF member among whom I find myself, we would let the Mr. Administrator know and that person does not belong to the DTF again, you can have it by the way.

Hateful involvement with someone from the DTF for ideology, religion, sex, beliefs and race according to DTF rules is grounds for immediate expulsion from DTF.

On the other hand, being prohibited from talking about politics or expressing ideas of a religious nature in order to proselytize is grounds for expulsion. Therefore, if the Administrator has evidence that someone from the DTF insulted him, he can be sure that that person will never return to the DTF.

My full support.

[Strawberry Crocodile]

Being asked for one´s gender is a normal question that itself does by no means intend to aim at the one being asked with bad intentions. If one does not even allow this quite normal and natural question being asked, I regard that a part of cancel culture.

I think you're assuming that a trans person being asked this question is somehow the same as a cis person being asked this question, and I hope you can come to appreciate that that's simply not the case.

Yesterday was the Transgender Day of Remembrance, a day to remember the transgender lives lost due to transphobia. And the fact is, there are a lot of them. In my country, the US, 37 trans women have been directly murdered by cis people this year alone. These killings were due to the belief that trans women are somehow other, "wrong", or predatory. This is a pervasive belief, and one that I find a lot of otherwise nice people will echo to me if I bring up transgender issues.

And even if the person in front of me isn't going to murder me, that question- "what is your gender?" is often one that comes with the belief that I am lesser, inhuman, strange. I've heard multiple trans women talk about the expressions on peoples' faces, being asked their gender while a small group of giggling high-schoolers gives them nervous stares. How many shows have you watched where the absurdity of a man in a dress was the butt of a joke? How many horror movies had "disturbed men" who wanted to murder women so they could feel feminine? This is just shows to you, but for us this reflects what millions of people think when they see us. Whenever someone asks that question, "what is your gender", that is what we are trained to expect. Sure, maybe it's completely innocuous, but I have no way of knowing that.

So yes, it is not inherently a bad question. Completely devoid of context it would be absolutely fine. But the simple fact is that we do not live in a world devoid of context, where each event happens in isolation. Now I don't mean to say I know what you're thinking, but you seem to believe this is some kind of moral obligation people are forcing on you, which might make you feel judged. Think of it as a politeness, the same way you don't walk up to a large woman and ask her weight. It's innocuous to you, but to us it dredges up bad memories at best and makes us fear for our lives at worst. Please respect our wishes. I'm sure it's little more than a minor inconvenience to you, but for us can literally be life and death.

[DinoToyForum]

Being asked for one´s gender is a normal question that itself does by no means intend to aim at the one being asked with bad intentions. If one does not even allow this quite normal and natural question being asked, I regard that a part of cancel culture.

I think you're assuming that a trans person being asked this question is somehow the same as a cis person being asked this question, and I hope you can come to appreciate that that's simply not the case.

Yesterday was the Transgender Day of Remembrance, a day to remember the transgender lives lost due to transphobia. And the fact is, there are a lot of them. In my country, the US, 37 trans women have been directly murdered by cis people this year alone. These killings were due to the belief that trans women are somehow other, "wrong", or predatory. This is a pervasive belief, and one that I find a lot of otherwise nice people will echo to me if I bring up transgender issues.

And even if the person in front of me isn't going to murder me, that question- "what is your gender?" is often one that comes with the belief that I am lesser, inhuman, strange. I've heard multiple trans women talk about the expressions on peoples' faces, being asked their gender while a small group of giggling high-schoolers gives them nervous stares. How many shows have you watched where the absurdity of a man in a dress was the butt of a joke? How many horror movies had "disturbed men" who wanted to murder women so they could feel feminine? This is just shows to you, but for us this reflects what millions of people think when they see us. Whenever someone asks that question, "what is your gender", that is what we are trained to expect. Sure, maybe it's completely innocuous, but I have no way of knowing that.

So yes, it is not inherently a bad question. Completely devoid of context it would be absolutely fine. But the simple fact is that we do not live in a world devoid of context, where each event happens in isolation. Now I don't mean to say I know what you're thinking, but you seem to believe this is some kind of moral obligation people are forcing on you, which might make you feel judged. Think of it as a politeness, the same way you don't walk up to a large woman and ask her weight. It's innocuous to you, but to us it dredges up bad memories at best and makes us fear for our lives at worst. Please respect our wishes. I'm sure it's little more than a minor inconvenience to you, but for us can literally be life and death.

I'm sympathetic to your situation and happy to respect your wishes but I'm not entirely sure what they are in this example. To clarify, are you asking that forum members never ask another member what their gender is in case that member takes it as an insult or threat? I'd personally never ask that anyway, in real life or on the forum as its kind of irrelevant and none of my business, but is that what you're asking? Or have I misunderstood. I ask because, while I fully understand the problem with that in a 'real world' situation, it seems like an odd thing to request on a forum where members are as anonymous or visible as they choose to be, and where no member is obliged to reveal any personal information about themselves. I'm happy to learn and change my ways, and I'm sure I have a lot to learn, so I hope you don't mind my questions. If we don't ask we never learn.