Carnegie Collection by Safari Ltd

[joossa]

Binocular vision, anyone?

TQ, your custom Rex looks great.
This is one of the Carnegie theropod models I like the least, though since I find the angles of the head/neck-to-body and the tail-to-body awkward. They look too "forced" if that makes sense.

I generally like Rogers' theropods, though. The feet are a bit slender in some cases and sometimes, don't seem to be postured realistically enough. Nevertheless, I have a bunch of them on display and would love to see her future work! I think my favorite is the Cryolophosaurus and Carnotaurus.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

You can say this much about it...wether you sit and bash Forest For her work or love them each for its many fine points....if she has found a new avenue or way to offer dinosaurs we will soon know quite well wether she is talented as a sculpter and was simply following the constraints that sculpting a three dimensional plastic toy that tottered in real life itself, as well as the codes for toy products and the rules she was given by Safari, or if she deserves the constant belittling she is given at times. Having seen much of her other sculpture work and knowing how capable she is, my bet is on Forest and I think the future will hold some amazing surprises. I admit I am biased and also feel it wrong to attack an elderly woman that is not here to speak for herself ....especially after she just spent 28 years of her life creating some of the most prolific dinosaur figures known in the hobby....but that is just my take, each to his own

[terrorchicken]

My drawing wasnt meant to bash her, Im sorry if i came off that way. Im not really thinking of her or any artist specifically when I criticize a sculpt, its up to the companies who dictate the final look of a figure and I know a lot of meddling goes into these things. and for the record I do like her theropods and own a few, I like that theyre thin and graceful. Its just the sameness in the poses that I have issues with and thats really not her fault. I guess I should have been more clear but I didn't have time to elaborate more in my initial post as i was in a hurry when I made it. Also I just wanted to post my awful drawing of a Carnegie theropod. 

[Simon]

My drawing wasnt meant to bash her, Im sorry if i came off that way. Im not really thinking of her or any artist specifically when I criticize a sculpt, its up to the companies who dictate the final look of a figure and I know a lot of meddling goes into these things. and for the record I do like her theropods and own a few, I like that theyre thin and graceful. Its just the sameness in the poses that I have issues with and thats really not her fault. I guess I should have been more clear but I didn't have time to elaborate more in my initial post as i was in a hurry when I made it. Also I just wanted to post my awful drawing of a Carnegie theropod. 

Son, so long as you stated it politely, its never necessary to apologize for having an opinion.  Popular or otherwise.  And its one that I happen to agree with.

Besides, I don't think that anyone would have seen an implied critique of her work in your drawing.  It simply illustrates the pose you described.

[tyrantqueen]

My drawing wasnt meant to bash her, Im sorry if i came off that way. Im not really thinking of her or any artist specifically when I criticize a sculpt, its up to the companies who dictate the final look of a figure and I know a lot of meddling goes into these things. and for the record I do like her theropods and own a few, I like that theyre thin and graceful. Its just the sameness in the poses that I have issues with and thats really not her fault. I guess I should have been more clear but I didn't have time to elaborate more in my initial post as i was in a hurry when I made it. Also I just wanted to post my awful drawing of a Carnegie theropod. 

Son, so long as you stated it politely, its never necessary to apologize for having an opinion.  Popular or otherwise.  And its one that I happen to agree with.

Besides, I don't think that anyone would have seen an implied critique of her work in your drawing.  It simply illustrates the pose you described.

Don't you mean "daughter"? She's a girl.

[terrorchicken]

^yeah Im a she and Im glad Im not the only she here too. Nice to see other female dino fans!

thanks for your input Simon. I wasnt sure if the post was directed at me so wanted to clarify to make sure...Like I said I do like Rogers work but I feel like I need to own few of her theropods b/c of the similar pose issue. I have the same problem with some of Collecta's sauropods and theropods, Im not getting the new Acrocanthosaurus b/c it looks almost too much like their Carcharodontosaurus.

[suspsy]

My drawing wasnt meant to bash her, Im sorry if i came off that way. Im not really thinking of her or any artist specifically when I criticize a sculpt, its up to the companies who dictate the final look of a figure and I know a lot of meddling goes into these things. and for the record I do like her theropods and own a few, I like that theyre thin and graceful. Its just the sameness in the poses that I have issues with and thats really not her fault. I guess I should have been more clear but I didn't have time to elaborate more in my initial post as i was in a hurry when I made it. Also I just wanted to post my awful drawing of a Carnegie theropod. 

Son, so long as you stated it politely, its never necessary to apologize for having an opinion.  Popular or otherwise.  And its one that I happen to agree with.

Besides, I don't think that anyone would have seen an implied critique of her work in your drawing.  It simply illustrates the pose you described.

Yeah, I didn't see anything insulting in that post. Indeed, considering that it was Carnegie who adamantly insisted on the despised tripod stance for every single damn theropod, Rogers herself might agree with you!

[EmperorDinobot]

I still need to get my hands on a few of them. I sort of lost interest when they started changing the scales, to be honest. Why not make a smaller Carnotaurus? It just doesn't display well, being the same size as the Giganotosaurus. And I've heard that the Miragaia is huge as well.


Speaking of which, I am selling 46 Carnegie dinosaurs in two different lots. The older stuff. If anyone is interested... well you know where to find me.

[Halichoeres]

My drawing wasnt meant to bash her, Im sorry if i came off that way. Im not really thinking of her or any artist specifically when I criticize a sculpt, its up to the companies who dictate the final look of a figure and I know a lot of meddling goes into these things. and for the record I do like her theropods and own a few, I like that theyre thin and graceful. Its just the sameness in the poses that I have issues with and thats really not her fault. I guess I should have been more clear but I didn't have time to elaborate more in my initial post as i was in a hurry when I made it. Also I just wanted to post my awful drawing of a Carnegie theropod. 

Son, so long as you stated it politely, its never necessary to apologize for having an opinion.  Popular or otherwise.  And its one that I happen to agree with.

Besides, I don't think that anyone would have seen an implied critique of her work in your drawing.  It simply illustrates the pose you described.

Yeah, I didn't see anything insulting in that post. Indeed, considering that it was Carnegie who adamantly insisted on the despised tripod stance for every single damn theropod, Rogers herself might agree with you!

I agree, and terrorchicken's caricature was undeniably effective. I would say Simon's post was the harshest, and possibly what amargasaurus was referring to.

I still need to get my hands on a few of them. I sort of lost interest when they started changing the scales, to be honest. Why not make a smaller Carnotaurus? It just doesn't display well, being the same size as the Giganotosaurus. And I've heard that the Miragaia is huge as well.


Speaking of which, I am selling 46 Carnegie dinosaurs in two different lots. The older stuff. If anyone is interested... well you know where to find me.

It is a bummer that they went all wonky with the scales. The Miragaia is beautiful, but yeah, it's pretty large. Carnotaurus looks pretty silly towering over Saltasaurus.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Just setting the record straight, Terrorchicken my post was more directed towards Simon than you....for those who have witnessed the back and forth over the years, I am a friend of Forest Roger's and speak to her on occasion on Facebook. I have some figures she signed for me in my autographed collection as well. I agree some of her figures are hits and some are not as well done...as it would be with any artist that has done the same line of dinosaurs from the time they were created until the day they ended. In general my idea is if you take the original releases and line them up, and put the figures in order time-wise, you will be shocked at how much her style and ability has increased over the past many years. I think they are what they are...and I give her credit for her work. I also think if you were to see her work on various other sculptures, you would understand quite rapidly, she is quite capable of sculpting anything she chooses, and some of the issues she has faced with the Carnegie line were by products of creating sculpts that meet the toy laws, Safaris own rules and still creating a toy that kids can enjoy and yet is somehow considered accurate as well.
   Not surprisingly, when one of the new kids on the block decided to say something ....inflammatory to Doug Watson, I spoke up for him , as did several others thankfully. I enjoy a friendship with Doug that has proven momentously helpful to my efforts over the past year in particular. I do not find each and every dinosaur Doug does to be perfect either...but again, it is what it is, and he deserves credit for his ongoing and constant effort to make nice dinosaurs for us. To his credit, I myself felt the recent Sauropelta and Nasutoceratops were two of the nicest dinosaur sculpts ever made by anyone, period.
  Enter Dan LaRosso...another man I consider a friend. He too has been at some point insulted and I have spoken up for him as well. Are all his dinosaurs perfect? No, but it is what it is. Again he deserves credit for his constant and ongoing efforts to make dinosaurs for us. I have signed figures from all three artists I treasure.
  I just feel attacking the artist for the final result is not balanced, fair or even very well thought out. They each have to bring a final product to bear that is a toy..and yet appeals to adult collectors. A figure that stands independently when the dinosaur itself was a tottering balancing act....it has to meet the safety laws, the manufactures specs, and 101 other critical demands.
   Simon has over the years been a rather constant critic of in particular Forest Rogers, and I do not think he himself would try to even attempt to gloss that over. We just disagree ad have on this issue. For the record, when Simon himself has been in trouble for something within this forum I also spoke up for him as well......It is just a difference of opinion is all.

[pylraster]

What I feel about Forrest Roger's art... hmmm. I guess wasted potential. If she found a way to pose them more interestingly, I'll like them more. Most of her theropods have that very static pose.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

What I feel about Forrest Roger's art... hmmm. I guess wasted potential. If she found a way to pose them more interestingly, I'll like them more. Most of her theropods have that very static pose.

The only problem with that point of view is that it assumes she chose the pose....I know from speaking to her , that she herself was frustrated at being told to pose the figures as tripods. I am unsure just how much choice or free reign she may have had in that decision....and without the knowledge, I am unsure how you can place blame anywhere .

[tyrantqueen]

I see a lot of complaining towards Carnegie about the tripod posture. That's a valid criticism, as is the complaint about stagnant poses. But I see the same problem with the Battat line, and yet they get a free pass. If you look at the sculpts, nearly all the Battat theropods are using a tail or limb to balance themselves. Some of the old Battats had serious problems standing.

I'm not bashing Battat btw. I like their sculpts well enough. Tripod dinosaurs are a concession that have to be made, either that or clown feet. I prefer tripods. I can deal with badly balanced models by using an outside method of support, like a plastic rod. But if you're going to complain about Carnegies being tripods, realise that they are not the only ones doing it.

[Patrx]

Tripod dinosaurs are a concession that have to be made, either that or clown feet. I prefer tripods.

There is one simple, elegant solution with absolutely no downsides - bases.

I kid, I know some people dislike them, and I understand why. 

Honestly, you make a good point TQ. But, I suppose that while Battat's bipeds often end up in a tripod pose, it's not always the same tripod pose. Nearly all of the latest Carnegie theropods follow that sketch of terrorchicken's right down to the position of the jaws. The Carnegie Bepiasaurus offers a welcome deviation, leaning on a forelimb rather than its tail.

[EmperorDinobot]

^^^I rather like bases. Why do you think the Kaiyodos are some of my favorite dinosaurs of all time?

Instead of bashing pose, let's bash the scale changes instead, not the sculpts. THAT is what ruined it for me. I've always held the Carnegies in very high regard, to the point where should anyone find themselves lucky to be marooned in my dinosaur room, I proudly walk them over to the Safari/Schleich/Battat, whatever shelf and I exude a "this is my Carnegie Collection, from the Carnegie Museum over in Pittsburgh" with a full chest and joyful pride.

If anything the later sculpts are very nice, very Carnegie-like. I don't know what more y'all expected from Rogers' style. That is how you know if it's a Carnegie, or not.

[Simon]

Just setting the record straight, Terrorchicken my post was more directed towards Simon than you....for those who have witnessed the back and forth over the years, I am a friend of Forest Roger's and speak to her on occasion on Facebook. I have some figures she signed for me in my autographed collection as well. I agree some of her figures are hits and some are not as well done...as it would be with any artist that has done the same line of dinosaurs from the time they were created until the day they ended. In general my idea is if you take the original releases and line them up, and put the figures in order time-wise, you will be shocked at how much her style and ability has increased over the past many years. I think they are what they are...and I give her credit for her work. I also think if you were to see her work on various other sculptures, you would understand quite rapidly, she is quite capable of sculpting anything she chooses, and some of the issues she has faced with the Carnegie line were by products of creating sculpts that meet the toy laws, Safaris own rules and still creating a toy that kids can enjoy and yet is somehow considered accurate as well.
   Not surprisingly, when one of the new kids on the block decided to say something ....inflammatory to Doug Watson, I spoke up for him , as did several others thankfully. I enjoy a friendship with Doug that has proven momentously helpful to my efforts over the past year in particular. I do not find each and every dinosaur Doug does to be perfect either...but again, it is what it is, and he deserves credit for his ongoing and constant effort to make nice dinosaurs for us. To his credit, I myself felt the recent Sauropelta and Nasutoceratops were two of the nicest dinosaur sculpts ever made by anyone, period.
  Enter Dan LaRosso...another man I consider a friend. He too has been at some point insulted and I have spoken up for him as well. Are all his dinosaurs perfect? No, but it is what it is. Again he deserves credit for his constant and ongoing efforts to make dinosaurs for us. I have signed figures from all three artists I treasure.
  I just feel attacking the artist for the final result is not balanced, fair or even very well thought out. They each have to bring a final product to bear that is a toy..and yet appeals to adult collectors. A figure that stands independently when the dinosaur itself was a tottering balancing act....it has to meet the safety laws, the manufactures specs, and 101 other critical demands.
   Simon has over the years been a rather constant critic of in particular Forest Rogers, and I do not think he himself would try to even attempt to gloss that over. We just disagree ad have on this issue. For the record, when Simon himself has been in trouble for something within this forum I also spoke up for him as well......It is just a difference of opinion is all.

*Chuckle*  All true.  Just a difference of opinion is right.  I was so disappointed when the new Carnegie TRex came out (it had looked soooo goood in sneak previews that pretty much mainly showed the head and body) that I was cheeky enough to send the following photoshop to Ms. Rogers through her website as an FYI for what it SHOULD have looked like: 



Now THAT was naughty of me ... 

[Simon]

I am seriously considering buying a few more Battat TRexes, cutting them up, and using parts to kitbash better arms and legs/tail for the Carnegie TRex and also the Collecta Carcharodontosaurus ... we'll see if I get the time or the inkling to do it ....

[Sim]

I see a lot of complaining towards Carnegie about the tripod posture. That's a valid criticism, as is the complaint about stagnant poses. But I see the same problem with the Battat line, and yet they get a free pass. If you look at the sculpts, nearly all the Battat theropods are using a tail or limb to balance themselves. Some of the old Battats had serious problems standing.

I'm not bashing Battat btw. I like their sculpts well enough. Tripod dinosaurs are a concession that have to be made, either that or clown feet. I prefer tripods. I can deal with badly balanced models by using an outside method of support, like a plastic rod. But if you're going to complain about Carnegies being tripods, realise that they are not the only ones doing it.

Regarding the Carnegie and Battat tripods:

Carnegie's are almost all in a standing, rearing pose, with the mouth open.  It's a static pose which on some of the figures makes them look like they could be tail draggers.  In addition to this pose not showing the active bipedal nature of these animals well, another problem is how many of the Carnegie figures are in this same pose.  Looking just at the most recent versions of the animals in the Carnegie Collection, the Velociraptor, Tyrannosaurus, Concavenator, Carnotaurus, Cryolophosaurus, Spinosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Allosaurus, Oviraptor, Caudipteryx, Microraptor, Acrocanthosaurus, Psittacosaurus and Plateosaurus are all in a rearing mouth open pose.  That's 14 different animals, some of which have older versions that were in that tripod pose too (e.g.: Spinosaurus, Oviraptor).  The Parasaurolophus is in a rearing tripod pose too, only its mouth is closed.  In my opinion, this tripod pose tends to be boring, and this becomes a bigger problem when so many dinosaurs in the line are in this same pose.  15 Carnegie dinosaurs are in a rearing tripod pose, 16 if you include the Dilophosaurus which had two sculpts released together one of which was in this pose.

Battat's tripods look like the animals are in the middle of moving, and there's a lot of variety in the poses of the Battat tripods.  All of the poses look quite different.  So I think Battat's tripods tend to work well. Not the Dilophosaurus's pose though, though that might be personal preference.  I think the newer Battat Dilophosaurus sculpt is better than the older sculpt in every way pose included (the older Dilo sculpt is by far the weakest Battat sculpt) but I still really don't like its pose.  I still quite like it though, it's my favourite out of all Dilophosaurus toys.  I look forward to getting the reissue.

I don't think people have been disliking that Carnegie's figures are in a tripod pose, I think people have been disliking the way many Carnegie tripods are posed; and how often Carnegie dinosaurs are in this same rearing tripod pose.  I know that's what I've been disliking.  I don't see how Battat's tripod poses are stagnant.

[terrorchicken]

I actually prefer tripods over those giant feet and stocky bodies of those newer Wild Safari theropod figures. Its just... they all have the same pose. Wide open mouth, arms spread out ready to grab something. I guess this is Carnegie dictating they be posed that way to make them more appealing to kids who want "fighting pose" dinos.

EDIT: ok, Sim beat me to it. 

[Sim]

*Chuckle*  All true.  Just a difference of opinion is right.  I was so disappointed when the new Carnegie TRex came out (it had looked soooo goood in sneak previews that pretty much mainly showed the head and body) that I was cheeky enough to send the following photoshop to Ms. Rogers through her website as an FYI for what it SHOULD have looked like: 

Now THAT was naughty of me ... 

It might've been better if you sent that to Carnegie.