Safari: New for 2017

[suspsy]

Now, now. When it comes to Wild Safari dinosaurs sculpted by Doug Watson, there can be no such thing as a "wasted slot."

[Dilopho]

Personally, I think I'd like to see some Carnegie-esque figures...I love the colour schemes for them.

[Bokisaurus]

Interesting new dinos for 2017. That T-Rex would be an interesting companion to Collecta's

[terrorchicken]

The Trike and the Stego are leagues ahead of most other widely available companies' options. I see no reason to waste a slot on Safari's production line over such minor quibbles. There's plenty of other older Safari models which are FAR more inaccurate by now. With those two considerations in mind, I'm quite happy with my Trike and Stego for now.

I agree. And whats wrong with WS stego's thagomizer? I just see 4 spikes. Enlighten me oh wise ones. 

[Pachyrhinosaurus]

I agree. And whats wrong with WS stego's thagomizer? I just see 4 spikes. Enlighten me oh wise ones. 

The thagomizer spikes are pointing upwards while the modern consensus is that they would have pointed out to the sides.

[Dinoguy2]

I agree. And whats wrong with WS stego's thagomizer? I just see 4 spikes. Enlighten me oh wise ones. 

The thagomizer spikes are pointing upwards while the modern consensus is that they would have pointed out to the sides.

Funny how long it takes for "modern consensus" to become well known. Dan LoRuso got this right back in 1994! 22 years later and a lot of Dino fans still don't know what a correct thagomizer position is, in part because of "educational" toys that keep cranking out the same old inaccuracies.

[Sim]

The second one looks like a demon but I have a bootleg one and it's not that bad.
If the second one's head was on the top one's body I'd probably like it though. But get rid of the silly eye horn things, you're not an allosaur, rexy!

I don't know of any allosaurs that have those 'eye horns'.  The closest I can think of to that is the Walking with Dinosaurs Allosaurus where the crests were inaccurately put over the eyes instead of before them.  I think that Wild Safari Tyrannosaurus was based on the Tyrannosaurus from Jurassic Park and that's why it has those 'eye horns'.  The only real dinosaur I know that has anything similar is Carnotaurus.

[Dilopho]

I don't know of any allosaurs that have those 'eye horns'.  The closest I can think of to that is the Walking with Dinosaurs Allosaurus where the crests were inaccurately put over the eyes instead of before them.  I think that Wild Safari Tyrannosaurus was based on the Tyrannosaurus from Jurassic Park and that's why it has those 'eye horns'.  The only real dinosaur I know that has anything similar is Carnotaurus.

Oh, I was thinking of these things!!!

[Sim]

The eye socket comes after those horns/crests on Allosaurus not before, as seen in the images below.  The large skull opening that comes before Allosaurus's horns/crests isn't the eye socket.

  (image source)
  (image source)

[Doug Watson]

I think that Wild Safari Tyrannosaurus was based on the Tyrannosaurus from Jurassic Park and that's why it has those 'eye horns'.  The only real dinosaur I know that has anything similar is Carnotaurus.

I don't know when that one with the post orbital horn was made (all I know is I didn't do it) but back in the day it was common to place a horn there because mature T rex and Tarbosaurus skulls exibit a "rugose tuberosity that rises above the lateral surface of the postorbital along the orbital margin." (Currie, P.J. 2003. Cranial anatomy of tyrannosaurid dinosaurs from the Late Cretaceous of Alberta, Canada. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 48 (2): 191–226.)
It was thought at the time that the tuberosity supported some form of ornamentation, in fact in Currie's paper he also refers to it as a postorbital "horn", his quotations. I did a T rex back before that paper and at the time the palaeontologists at CMN suggested a post orbital horn.

Mature Gorgosaurus and Albertosaurus also have a pronounced lacrimal horn that Currie describes as follows:
"In Gorgosaurus (Fig. 2A) and Albertosaurus (Fig. 6B), the dorsolateral margin of the lacrimal is raised into a ridge that forms a conspicuous lacrimal "horn" anterodorsal to the orbit." He does not go on to suggest an additional keratinous horn adorning that "horn" but it would be noticeable in life either way. Large individuals of Gorgosaurus and Albertosaurus also have the rugose tuberosity of the post orbital bone.

[Sim]

According to toyanimal.info, that WS Tyrannosaurus was released in 2007: http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=Safari_298529_Tyrannosaurus_rex

I knew about tyrannosaurid specimens having those postorbital rugose tuberosities, but I'm not sure if having them support the almost Carnotaurus-like horns seen on that WS Tyrannosaurus was considered plausible?  What I'd been thinking was plausible was 'horns' like those on the Battat Tyrannosaurus sculpts (the first sculpt was released in 1994 and the second in 1998).

I knew about the lacrimal "horn" in Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus too.  That horn/crest is before the eye like in Allosaurus though, rather than a postorbital horn like in that WS Tyrannosaurus.

[Doug Watson]

According to toyanimal.info, that WS Tyrannosaurus was released in 2007: http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=Safari_298529_Tyrannosaurus_rex

I knew about tyrannosaurid specimens having those postorbital rugose tuberosities, but I'm not sure if having them support the almost Carnotaurus-like horns seen on that WS Tyrannosaurus was considered plausible?  What I'd been thinking was plausible was 'horns' like those on the Battat Tyrannosaurus sculpts (the first sculpt was released in 1994 and the second in 1998).

I knew about the lacrimal "horn" in Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus too.  That horn/crest is before the eye like in Allosaurus though, rather than a postorbital horn like in that WS Tyrannosaurus.

If the post orbital bone did support a nonbone horn that didn't fossilize who is to say how large it would be? Look at some of the theories on horns over the nasal boss on a Pachyrhinosaurus. However from that picture I wouldn't say that horn on the Safari piece was Carnotaurus-like, bigger than I would have made it but not that big.

Yes I know the horn/crest on Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus is before the eye, that is where the lacrimal is.

[Sim]

If the post orbital bone did support a nonbone horn that didn't fossilize who is to say how large it would be? Look at some of the theories on horns over the nasal boss on a Pachyrhinosaurus. However from that picture I wouldn't say that horn on the Safari piece was Carnotaurus-like, bigger than I would have made it but not that big.

Yes I know the horn/crest on Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus is before the eye, that is where the lacrimal is.

I have seen images of Pachyrhinosaurus with a horn over the nasal boss, but I thought the consensus was the boss of Pachyrhinosaurus was just a boss and not the support for a horn?

The reason I mentioned that the horn/crest on Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus is before the eye rather than after is because that means they aren't homologous to the postorbital tuberosities.  Comparing the two in photos, to me it also looks like the lacrimal horns appear to have a quite specific and conspicuous shape, while the postorbital tuberosities don't seem to have such a clear shape, looking more like rough areas of bone.

In case there was any misunderstanding, I didn't say the horns on that WS T. rex are Carnotaurus-like, I said they were almost Carnotaurus-like.

[Doug Watson]

I have seen images of Pachyrhinosaurus with a horn over the nasal boss, but I thought the consensus was the boss of Pachyrhinosaurus was just a boss and not the support for a horn?

Yes that is why I called it a "theory". Personally I don't agree with that theory, why would this one ceratopsian shed a horn from a boss when all the others have a horn core.

Anyway it seems we are in agreement I just wanted to point out where the whole postorbital horn idea on T rex came from and that there are members of the Tyrannosauridae that have lacrimal "horns" anterodorsal to the orbit similar but not exactly like Allosaurus.

[Sim]

Yes that is why I called it a "theory". Personally I don't agree with that theory, why would this one ceratopsian shed a horn from a boss when all the others have a horn core.

Anyway it seems we are in agreement I just wanted to point out where the whole postorbital horn idea on T rex came from and that there are members of the Tyrannosauridae that have lacrimal "horns" anterodorsal to the orbit similar but not exactly like Allosaurus.

Yes, it seems we are in complete agreement then!  Hehe! 

[suspsy]

Doug, I know you're presently not allowed to comment on any details of the 2017 line, but I was just trying to remember: you did once say you started work on these toys in early 2015, correct?

[Doug Watson]

Doug, I know you're presently not allowed to comment on any details of the 2017 line, but I was just trying to remember: you did once say you started work on these toys in early 2015, correct?

Yes 2015.

[terrorchicken]

I agree. And whats wrong with WS stego's thagomizer? I just see 4 spikes. Enlighten me oh wise ones. 

The thagomizer spikes are pointing upwards while the modern consensus is that they would have pointed out to the sides.

oh...well great now Im gonna want to check all my stego figures to see which ones are "wrong". 

same thing happened to me when I found out theropods didn't have pronated hands. I cant stand figures that have them now.

someone should make a kind of "facts sheet" online reference guide with a picture of correct up to date restoration drawings of all the dino types and arrows pointing to how every part of the anatomy should and shouldn't be drawn/sculpted. 

[suspsy]

Doug, I know you're presently not allowed to comment on any details of the 2017 line, but I was just trying to remember: you did once say you started work on these toys in early 2015, correct?

Yes 2015.

Thank you. I had noticed earlier on in the thread that someone was complaining about the lack of lips on the T. rex, which I felt was unfair based on when you would have sculpted it. Granted, the T. rex lip debate has been going on for quite some time now, but it only became mainstream news back in the spring with Robert Reiz's research.

With all the ongoing discoveries and theories about dinosaurs, it's bloody difficult for toy companies to keep up!

[Doug Watson]

Thank you. I had noticed earlier on in the thread that someone was complaining about the lack of lips on the T. rex, which I felt was unfair based on when you would have sculpted it. Granted, the T. rex lip debate has been going on for quite some time now, but it only became mainstream news back in the spring with Robert Reiz's research.

With all the ongoing discoveries and theories about dinosaurs, it's bloody difficult for toy companies to keep up!

and I may not have put lips on it anyway since there still is no peer reviewed paper or consensus. I have been discussing this with Patrx and as I recently pondered how Dr. Reisz's theory would apply to the many toothy Pterosaurs that also did not live an aquatic life.