Papo - new for 2019

[Loon]

You, stargate and possibly, sup are members of an elite and distinctive school of thought which believes that Papo has produced ZERO accurate models since their inception.  It's not an idea that is particularly popular on the boards.

Listen, I don't really care what you think of me, or other members. But, you're wrong here. I actually own a few Papo models, and they have made accurate figures. I can't speak for them, but I'd guess stargatedalek and whoever the hell sup is would agree.

I'm not trying to get you banned. I asked you a question, and all you've done is avoid and act smarmy. I just want an answer.

[stargatedalek]

Definitely exciting times to see yet another Papo piece that will be deemed "accurate" for the world to witness.

What was the other one?

Haha, nice. You proved my point 

Alright, don't answer. I was expecting anything useful from you, anyhow.

You're goading. I was in danger of being banned the last time you tried this and then at least one or two other members ganged up on me.

Here's a summary of my stance, in the most polite, civil way possible:

You, stargate and possibly, sup are members of an elite and distinctive school of thought which believes that Papo has produced ZERO accurate models since their inception.  It's not an idea that is particularly popular on the boards.

I own more Papo dinosaurs than I do CollectA dinosaurs. They AREN'T accurate. They just... aren't. That's objective. Doesn't mean I don't like a lot of their designs.

Definitely exciting times to see yet another Papo piece that will be deemed "accurate" for the world to witness. It's still pretty early and not everyone is informed about the latest news but it will eventually sink in.

It wasn't accurate when it released and it isn't accurate now. That, again, doesn't mean it can't be a fun and cool design, that is after all what Papo is actually aiming for.

We are free to disagree but the Papo is the most accurate Spino representation to date. Credit where credit is due.
I've reviewed all your arguments regarding it and I simply don't buy it. Sorry.

I don't see how the Papo Spinosaurus including the tail fin but getting it wrong makes it more accurate than, for example, the Safari Spinosaurus which doesn't include the tail fin but has the correct feet which the Papo doesn't.

Happy Hen toys has some great images of some angles showing the feet of the new Papo Spinosaurus. It's been well documented since the 2014 paper that Spinosaurus had four enlarged toes for swimming, yet Papo has incorrectly opted for a traditionally shrunken dewclaw instead.

https://www.happyhentoys.com/papo-55077-spinosaurus-new-2019.html

The Schleich Spinosaurus also has a tail fin/vertically enlarged tail, it's just a lot thicker and more uniform along the tails length rather than being fish-like. It also gets the foot anatomy wrong though.

Spoiler

[close]

[tanystropheus]

While that may be true, you would NEVER label a somewhat inaccurate or dated Safari Spinosaurus model as being "inaccurate."  And, that's the problem with objectivity. It is woefully skewed.

Also, I don't think Papo does what it does simply because it's fun and creative. There's definitely some thought that goes into their design (for example, the Spinosaurus as a knuckle-walker suggests an interpretation of sorts)

[stargatedalek]

While that may be true, you would NEVER label a somewhat inaccurate or dated Safari Spinosaurus model as being "inaccurate."  And, that's the problem with objectivity. It is woefully skewed.

Their current model is inaccurate, and I definitely said this at it's release and in the topic discussing which Spinosaurus figure is the most accurate. It gets a lot more of the skeletal anatomy right than the CollectA or later Papo and Schleich models do, but it has issues with its soft tissues like going really far with the crocodile influence which make it not technically accurate.

[Loon]

While that may be true, you would NEVER label a somewhat inaccurate or dated Safari Spinosaurus model as being "inaccurate."  And, that's the problem with objectivity. It is woefully skewed.

That's because Safari more often than not releases figures that are as up to date as possible. Of course, many of their older figures are now pretty innaccurate or just not that good looking. The 2010s Carnegie Spinosaurus and Cryolophosaurus, the Wild Safari Dunkleosteus and Postosuchus are just a few examples.

Papo, on the other hand, have had a habit for releasing models that have major innaccuracies when they come out. But, I'll give Papo their due here, they're making more and more of an effort, and some of their newer designs are pretty good. Quetzalcoatlus, Pentaceratops,  and the Therizinosaurus are all spectacular and pretty decently up to date.

And honestly, I don't really care if someone likes Papo or not. Even if some of the designs are innaccurate or lifted from somewhere else. I mean, I collect Nanmu figures and am jumping up and down with excitement for Rebor's Carnotaurus. I do dislike it when people try to claim they're accurate, or we don't know what dinosaurs looked like, so they're fine. They're artistic figures first and foremost, and in that case they way out shine many other companies including Safari. But I don't mainly collect artistic versions of Dinosaurs, I'm interested in the science of them. So, I'll always prefer a Safari or a CollectA to a Papo, Schleich, or Mojo.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

No personal attacks, which a lot of this is starting to sound like. Please cease and move on.

[ITdactyl]

On a funny note, the National Geographic writer who penned the magazine's article about Spinosaurus' "new" tail used the Papo model to discuss the tail fin during an online interview.

To be fair, it is currently the only model that can be used to illustrate the point despite its design being different from what the fossil is showing.

[Lu_Yuping]

Papo is the most realistic spinosaurus model made to date, and it really is due an apology. End.

[DinoToyForum]

Definitely exciting times to see yet another Papo piece that will be deemed "accurate" for the world to witness.

What was the other one?

Haha, nice. You proved my point 

Alright, don't answer. I was expecting anything useful from you, anyhow.

You're goading. I was in danger of being banned the last time you tried this and then at least one or two other members ganged up on me.

Here's a summary of my stance, in the most polite, civil way possible:

You, stargate and possibly, susp are members of an elite and distinctive school of thought which believes that Papo has produced ZERO accurate models since their inception.  It's not an idea that is particularly popular on the boards.

Yes, to echo moderators @Blade-of-the-Moon and @Patrx, please no personal attacks. You're obviously being derogatory here. Final warning.

[suspsy]

Papo is the most realistic spinosaurus model made to date, and it really is due an apology. End.

I'd say it's been firmly established over the last couple of days that the Papo Spinosaurus' tail is not identical to the latest restoration's, same as how a conger eel's tail is not identical to a sailfin lizard's. At best there's a slight resemblance. As Darren Naish put it, "They're not THAT right, they just gave it a speculative dorsal tail fin."

[Sarapaurolophus]

I think people are splitting hairs over the meaning of words.
Obviously Papo is not entirely accurate but the fact that they gave it a fishlike tail before the news came out is commendable. Unless the sculptor speaks on this we can't know why they did it. From a personal standpoint I'd say it was a case of the sculptor trying something new based on the aquatic lifestyle of the animal. For Papo that's pretty cool because it's plausible and yet sets the figure apart from others.

We need to look at the body of work of a single company, imo. Papo is known for dinosaur figures that have a lot of "shelf pressence" and less for following the latest scientific findings. So when they do something that is outside the box AND turns out to be possible it reflects positively on them.
Similar to how the PNSO Spino had a flattened tail when other companies would still do the complete crocodile. It shows they thought about the animal's environment and lifestyle while also trying for a figure that would not look like the other companies.

With dinosaurs we have this freedom, which is great. I think going "but they did not predict an 100% accurate look, therefore it's still wrong" is doing a disservice to the thought behind the sculpture even tho it's of course correct that none of these figures are "the most accurate" if they get other things wrong (like the dew claw on Papo's).

[Shonisaurus]

Although Papo sometimes makes mistakes when making prehistoric toy animals, it must be recognized in this case that Papo's spinosaurus with its imperfections has been very successful. I know that many DTF members are hurt like me by the giganotosaurus and even by the chilesaurus of Papo 2020 but we must recognize the achievements of a brand of dinosaurs although it is not the preferred one for many in this case.

It is like the teacher who does not recognize the outstanding work of a student who is not one of the most outstanding in the study and by antipathy sees that all academic work he does is always wrong even if he has a grade of ten academic.

In any case, everything we know about spinosaurus remains assumptions until a complete skeleton is found, a correct paleoartistic representation can never be made. We do not have real videos or photographs of that dinosaur so it will always be speculative not only for that dinosaur but for the majority of other prehistoric animals.

[stargatedalek]

The Papo Spinosaurus is not unique in having as much of a fin as it does, as the Schleich and PNSO also have fins, just fleshy shark-like ones rather than thin ones.

[tanystropheus]

The Papo Spinosaurus is not unique in having as much of a fin as it does, as the Schleich and PNSO also have fins, just fleshy shark-like ones rather than thin ones.

The Papo fin ("fish-tail"/"eel-tail") was the most talked about feature when it was first revealed in the forum. In fact, a number of members criticized the Papo for having a fin in the first place. I wouldn't say, definitively, that the Papo rendition has a thin fin as it runs dorsally and appears to be somewhat continuous with the sail and other muscular supports. At least, that's what it looks like when I hold the model in hand. The Schleich Spino has no such fins - it has pronounced scutes running down its rather large crocodilian tail, giving off a somewhat lobe like silhouette (but they are scutes, nonetheless)

[Lu_Yuping]

The Papo Spinosaurus is not unique in having as much of a fin as it does, as the Schleich and PNSO also have fins, just fleshy shark-like ones rather than thin ones.

The Papo fin ("fish-tail"/"eel-tail") was the most talked about feature when it was first revealed in the forum. In fact, a number of members criticized the Papo for having a fin in the first place. I wouldn't say, definitively, that the Papo rendition has a thin fin as it runs dorsally and appears to be somewhat continuous with the sail and other muscular supports. At least, that's what it looks like when I hold the model in hand. The Schleich Spino has no such fins - it has pronounced scutes running down its rather large crocodilian tail, giving off a somewhat lobe like silhouette (but they are scutes, nonetheless)

Exactly. I also remember reading so much anger over the finned tail, with many people flat out denying it had any basis in factual evidence. The chickens have come home to roost on this one and it would be nice to see some humility.

[suspsy]

There still isn't any factual basis for the fins on that toy's tail, hence there is no need for humility or apology on anybody's part with regard to that subject.

[stargatedalek]

The Papo Spinosaurus is not unique in having as much of a fin as it does, as the Schleich and PNSO also have fins, just fleshy shark-like ones rather than thin ones.

The Papo fin ("fish-tail"/"eel-tail") was the most talked about feature when it was first revealed in the forum. In fact, a number of members criticized the Papo for having a fin in the first place. I wouldn't say, definitively, that the Papo rendition has a thin fin as it runs dorsally and appears to be somewhat continuous with the sail and other muscular supports. At least, that's what it looks like when I hold the model in hand. The Schleich Spino has no such fins - it has pronounced scutes running down its rather large crocodilian tail, giving off a somewhat lobe like silhouette (but they are scutes, nonetheless)

Exactly. I also remember reading so much anger over the finned tail, with many people flat out denying it had any basis in factual evidence. The chickens have come home to roost on this one and it would be nice to see some humility.

It doesn't have any basis in factual evidence! Spinosaurus did not have a fish fin! This thing looks like it was literally ripped off of a fish and glued onto the Spinosaurus.

[tanystropheus]

The Papo Spinosaurus is not unique in having as much of a fin as it does, as the Schleich and PNSO also have fins, just fleshy shark-like ones rather than thin ones.

The Papo fin ("fish-tail"/"eel-tail") was the most talked about feature when it was first revealed in the forum. In fact, a number of members criticized the Papo for having a fin in the first place. I wouldn't say, definitively, that the Papo rendition has a thin fin as it runs dorsally and appears to be somewhat continuous with the sail and other muscular supports. At least, that's what it looks like when I hold the model in hand. The Schleich Spino has no such fins - it has pronounced scutes running down its rather large crocodilian tail, giving off a somewhat lobe like silhouette (but they are scutes, nonetheless)

Exactly. I also remember reading so much anger over the finned tail, with many people flat out denying it had any basis in factual evidence. The chickens have come home to roost on this one and it would be nice to see some humility.

It doesn't have any basis in factual evidence! Spinosaurus did not have a fish fin! This thing looks like it was literally ripped off of a fish and glued onto the Spinosaurus.

It does have factual evidence as the National Geographic article even described it as being a "fish-like" adaptation (and the journal Nature describes it as "flexible-fin like"). The main difference is that the Papo interpretation has shorter neural spines than the latest findings.

https://www.sciencealert.com/dinosaurs-could-swim-startling-spinosaurus-discovery-in-sahara-desert-suggests

[Lu_Yuping]

You can't just deny facts when they don't align with your previous convictions. This is how climate change denial happens. It's no longer theory, it's public knowledge. We are done here.

[suspsy]

You can't just deny facts when they don't align with your previous convictions. This is how climate change denial happens. It's no longer theory, it's public knowledge. We are done here.

I've seen many unusual statements on the forum over the years, but a comparison to climate change denial just might take the cake.