PNSO: New For 2021

[SRF]

PNSO has no chill! I love that they are doing a dimetrodon and I feel quite inclined to get it. Not sure about that speculative half sail though..

Let's not get too excited yet. We don't know if this means an actual toy or if it's just artwork.

The jaw makes me think it's a model, as it does seem to be articulated. Maybe it's a prototype, like the new Triceratops.

I guess you're right about the jaw. This "reveal" indeed seems to be a preview just like that of the Triceratops.

[Flaffy]

I thought the half-sail on dimetrodon was long disproven? Like iirc exposed tips are in line with the latest hypotheses, but something to that extent would be implausible.

Also, thanks for the detailed write up L @Leyster!

[Dinoguy2]

NO! They are doing that trope that was long regarded as false. NO!

I thought this was based on the paper that pointed out lots of spines are twisted at weird angles and the bone texture is different at the distal ends, suggesting at least the last 1/3 of the spine would be free of soft tissue. Have new papers come out against this?

https://bioone.org/journals/fieldiana-life-and-earth-sciences/volume-2012/issue-5/2158-5520-5.1.104/Healed-Fractures-in-the-Neural-Spines-of-an-Associated-Skeleton/10.3158/2158-5520-5.1.104.short

The absence of vascular communicating canals casts doubt on the widely held hypothesis that these grooves contained blood vessels that supplied a thermoregulatory sail. Furthermore, the distal morphology of spines in more complete specimens, including the type fmnh UC 112 and omnh 01727, suggests that the dorsal margin of the sail was located well proximal to the tips of the elongate neural spines.

[Flaffy]

NO! They are doing that trope that was long regarded as false. NO!

I thought this was based on the paper that pointed out lots of spines are twisted at weird angles and the bone texture is different at the distal ends, suggesting at least the last 1/3 of the spine would be free of soft tissue. Have new papers come out against this?

https://bioone.org/journals/fieldiana-life-and-earth-sciences/volume-2012/issue-5/2158-5520-5.1.104/Healed-Fractures-in-the-Neural-Spines-of-an-Associated-Skeleton/10.3158/2158-5520-5.1.104.short

The absence of vascular communicating canals casts doubt on the widely held hypothesis that these grooves contained blood vessels that supplied a thermoregulatory sail. Furthermore, the distal morphology of spines in more complete specimens, including the type fmnh UC 112 and omnh 01727, suggests that the dorsal margin of the sail was located well proximal to the tips of the elongate neural spines.

The exposed portion on the PNSO reconstruction is clearly more than 1/3 of the length.

[Dinoguy2]

NO! They are doing that trope that was long regarded as false. NO!

I thought this was based on the paper that pointed out lots of spines are twisted at weird angles and the bone texture is different at the distal ends, suggesting at least the last 1/3 of the spine would be free of soft tissue. Have new papers come out against this?

https://bioone.org/journals/fieldiana-life-and-earth-sciences/volume-2012/issue-5/2158-5520-5.1.104/Healed-Fractures-in-the-Neural-Spines-of-an-Associated-Skeleton/10.3158/2158-5520-5.1.104.short

The absence of vascular communicating canals casts doubt on the widely held hypothesis that these grooves contained blood vessels that supplied a thermoregulatory sail. Furthermore, the distal morphology of spines in more complete specimens, including the type fmnh UC 112 and omnh 01727, suggests that the dorsal margin of the sail was located well proximal to the tips of the elongate neural spines.

The exposed portion on the PNSO reconstruction is clearly more than 1/3 of the length.

I think I was thinking of Stegosaurus when I got that 1/3 number (bone texture shows the bottom 1/3 of steg plates should be embedded in soft tissue). I'm reading the paper and trying to figure out how much of the spines actually support the sail. Scott Hartman says it's unclear and probably varied between species, sexes, age groups, etc. https://www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/21stcenturydimetrodon

The actual paper says that the little "horns" that stick out of the cross section of the spines are likely sail attachment structures and that these occur on the proximal spine. But I can't find a figure for exactly how proximal. Like Hartman said, it probably varies.

Given all that, I don't see any reason to describe the PNSO version as based on an outdated "trope". It seems to be within the range of interpretation allowable by published information. If anything, I think they should have played up the variation and twisting of the distal spines if they were going for a half-sailed look.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Hmmm it might be plausible but it sort of bothers me aesthetically as well as it it were a living creature, I can't imagine those all being perfect like that.  Then again unless they are pretty soft they just break in shipping giving a more natural appearance I guess... lol

[Faelrin]

To be honest it comes across as a bit monstrous to me, and I think that's due to the lack of lips, lack of sail (even if it may be plausible), and the spiny tail (is there evidence supporting something like this?). On the other hand it is quite an original take, especially as far as figures go, if it gets that far (I mean it also looks to have an articulated jaw to me).

Granted as far as the Paleozoic goes (if not even the Permian itself) there would be plenty of other obscure critters I'd like to see them do, but I am well aware Dimetrodon is obligatory for dinosaur lines, despite not being a dinosaur (or reptile), being prior to them and all. It's popular and sells well (I mean seriously there's over 70 figures from name brands, if not plenty more out there). Essentially the T. rex of the Permian and Paleozoic in that regard, as the Woolly Mammoth and Smilodon are for the extinct Pleistocene fauna. Granted it wasn't their first at least, as that title belongs to the Helicoprion which was such a nice surprise, and a long over due one at that.

[Stegotyranno420]

I never really understood the idea of the word monstrous(generally)
It looks pretty natural to me

[stargatedalek]

It doesn't look that dramatic to me, and I'd say they certainly seem appropriately warped for being as exposed as they are.

Remember, even the larger Dimetrodon species weren't likely the lion-like predators certain docu-series would want us to believe, they lived in wet areas and probably feed substantially on fish and amphibians much smaller than themselves. Exposed spines like this aren't much of a detriment if you aren't wrangling large prey.

Ultimately the degree that is left exposed is arbitrary until we have soft tissues for a given species, as there are so many different Dimetrodon and each was probably very different. And on that note, does anyone have any ideas which this one might be? I know PNSO likes to advertise that, but it seems sometimes the figure uses a different reference from the art (cough Allosaurus) and ends up being another species.

[John]

The Dimetrodon looks like a CG render of a prototype with a moveable lower jaw to me.

On another note,there is something that I noticed about the Triceratops:the painted one is the SAME SCULPT as the bronze one!That means it just might be a new model in the large series that includes the Ceratosaurus and Ophthalmosaurus.

Here my (hopefully) definitive two cents on the fragilis/jimmadseni question. Also there is an image that didn't made to the review, it's a comparison of the frontal model with an A.jimmadseni skull (in italian, but a translatow will do the work)

I think I know what's going on here with the Allosaurus.I'm thinking that it was originally intended to be A. fragilis as advertised,but the sculpt was completed before the 2020 naming of A. jimmadseni.That may be why there are so many details of that species incorporated into it's head sculpt.So much so,that it can work as an accurate representative of that species.

[Leyster]

Also, thanks for the detailed write up L @Leyster!

My pleasure!

Here my (hopefully) definitive two cents on the fragilis/jimmadseni question. Also there is an image that didn't made to the review, it's a comparison of the frontal model with an A.jimmadseni skull (in italian, but a translatow will do the work)

I think I know what's going on here with the Allosaurus.I'm thinking that it was originally intended to be A. fragilis as advertised,but the sculpt was completed before the 2020 naming of A. jimmadseni.That may be why there are so many details of that species incorporated into it's head sculpt.So much so,that it can work as an accurate representative of that species.

Yeah I personally think they used Hartman's MOR 693 (which is a very easy to find skeletal) as base.

[John]

Also, thanks for the detailed write up L @Leyster!

My pleasure!

Here my (hopefully) definitive two cents on the fragilis/jimmadseni question. Also there is an image that didn't made to the review, it's a comparison of the frontal model with an A.jimmadseni skull (in italian, but a translatow will do the work)

I think I know what's going on here with the Allosaurus.I'm thinking that it was originally intended to be A. fragilis as advertised,but the sculpt was completed before the 2020 naming of A. jimmadseni.That may be why there are so many details of that species incorporated into it's head sculpt.So much so,that it can work as an accurate representative of that species.

Yeah I personally think they used Hartman's MOR 693 (which is a very easy to find skeletal) as base.

Yes,it does look very much like the Big Al skeleton.

[Dinoxels]

The exposed portion on the PNSO reconstruction is clearly more than 1/3 of the length.

That's what I meant. Trey the Explainer's original video on Dimetrodon spread this misconception. Thankfully he did a correction video on it.

[Mattyonyx]

Here my (hopefully) definitive two cents on the fragilis/jimmadseni question. Also there is an image that didn't made to the review, it's a comparison of the frontal model with an A.jimmadseni skull (in italian, but a translatow will do the work)

I think I know what's going on here with the Allosaurus.I'm thinking that it was originally intended to be A. fragilis as advertised,but the sculpt was completed before the 2020 naming of A. jimmadseni.That may be why there are so many details of that species incorporated into it's head sculpt.So much so,that it can work as an accurate representative of that species.

That would explain a lot. If we think about it, that's what happened with the Parasaurolophus, which entered production right before Bertozzo's paper on the pathology and neck.

[John]

Here my (hopefully) definitive two cents on the fragilis/jimmadseni question. Also there is an image that didn't made to the review, it's a comparison of the frontal model with an A.jimmadseni skull (in italian, but a translatow will do the work)

I think I know what's going on here with the Allosaurus.I'm thinking that it was originally intended to be A. fragilis as advertised,but the sculpt was completed before the 2020 naming of A. jimmadseni.That may be why there are so many details of that species incorporated into it's head sculpt.So much so,that it can work as an accurate representative of that species.

That would explain a lot. If we think about it, that's what happened with the Parasaurolophus, which entered production right before Bertozzo's paper on the pathology and neck.

The good thing about the recent Parasaurolophus model is that it's sculpt was ahead of it's time.For instance,the dip in it's back was sculpted as a healed over injury.And while not as deep as now often seen in newer reconstructions,the neck is still in the range of plausible thickness suggested by the new paper as a result of it being based so heavily on the neck musculature preserved in the Brachylophosaurus mummy nicknamed "Leonardo".

[Mattyonyx]

Here my (hopefully) definitive two cents on the fragilis/jimmadseni question. Also there is an image that didn't made to the review, it's a comparison of the frontal model with an A.jimmadseni skull (in italian, but a translatow will do the work)

I think I know what's going on here with the Allosaurus.I'm thinking that it was originally intended to be A. fragilis as advertised,but the sculpt was completed before the 2020 naming of A. jimmadseni.That may be why there are so many details of that species incorporated into it's head sculpt.So much so,that it can work as an accurate representative of that species.

That would explain a lot. If we think about it, that's what happened with the Parasaurolophus, which entered production right before Bertozzo's paper on the pathology and neck.

The good thing about the recent Parasaurolophus model is that it's sculpt was ahead of it's time.For instance,the dip in it's back was sculpted as a healed over injury.And while not as deep as now often seen in newer reconstructions,the neck is still in the range of plausible thickness suggested by the new paper as a result of it being based so heavily on the neck musculature preserved in the Brachylophosaurus mummy nicknamed "Leonardo".

Yes, even the author of the paper, Filippo Bertozzo, mentioned it during this live review of the PNSO Parasaurolophus on our YouTube Channel (I know, it's in Italian, we're making ENG subs)
https://youtu.be/CIO5oJfWiDM

[stargatedalek]

The exposed portion on the PNSO reconstruction is clearly more than 1/3 of the length.

That's what I meant. Trey the Explainer's original video on Dimetrodon spread this misconception. Thankfully he did a correction video on it.

There is no reason more than 1/3 can't be exposed... or that less than 1/3 can't be exposed. All we know is that Dimetrodon spines are often warped and bent, meaning either a frayed sail or a partial one.

[Dromaenychus]

It's interesting how they go for the speculative flukes on Mosasaurus and Kronosaurus, and the half-sail Dimetrodon, but lips on theropods and cheeks on hervivores is a bit too speculative for them. Note: I'm still excited for my Allosaurus to arrive today.

[Flaffy]

The exposed portion on the PNSO reconstruction is clearly more than 1/3 of the length.

That's what I meant. Trey the Explainer's original video on Dimetrodon spread this misconception. Thankfully he did a correction video on it.

There is no reason more than 1/3 can't be exposed... or that less than 1/3 can't be exposed. All we know is that Dimetrodon spines are often warped and bent, meaning either a frayed sail or a partial one.

Speaking of, anyone have any idea if there are published papers that discusses this matter (extent of soft tissue coverage in neural spines of dimetrodon) in detail?

[SidB]

It's interesting how they go for the speculative flukes on Mosasaurus and Kronosaurus, and the half-sail Dimetrodon, but lips on theropods and cheeks on hervivores is a bit too speculative for them. Note: I'm still excited for my Allosaurus to arrive today.

It may be that the answer lies with the unpacking of what constitutes "them". How much independence of creativity and interpretation lies with the individuals who work in the PNSO bubble? Is it one person - doesn't seem to be so. There may well be a range of choices allowed.