Rebor: 1/11±1 Smilodon populator

[Shonisaurus]

I can only affirm that I will buy your smilodon reproduction when my economy allows it, yes or yes. For me they are the best smilodon on the market by far and I am very happy with these figures. Keep in that way. I do not dispute whether they are scientists or not, I just like those Rebor smilodon and there is nothing more to say from me.

[The Prehistoric Traveler]

Edit...

[The Prehistoric Traveler]

One of the La Brea Tar Pit Smilodon fossils has even longer fangs than REBOR's! Head-size seems to be good also. Quite tiny without fur. I agree with REBOR here.

Size of the fangs:

https://twitter.com/aadineen/status/1050894920804839424/photo/1

https://www.alamy.com/smilodon-the-saber-toothed-tiger-replica-skull-with-massive-canine-teeth-replica-cast-from-one-found-at-la-brea-tar-pits-la-california-usa-image263017935.html

The neck of REBOR's smilodon is slighty bend to the side, that what gives it an illusion of a shorter neck. Also take individual morphology into account (not all specimens had a huge looking neck):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Smilodon_fatalis_saber-toothed_tiger_%28Upper_Pleistocene%3B_California%2C_USA%29_1_%2815256979088%29.jpg

[The Prehistoric Traveler]

Now look at your common housecat (if you have one). Does the neck stand out? Mine hardly seems to have one from certain angles, and yet it is almost proportionate to the neck on Smilodon. It's all about fur and angle.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1467/6660/products/Cat-Skeleton.jpg?v=1591127402

[suspsy]

Fur and soft tissue can be quite deceiving sometimes, even the neck Mauricio Anton's own reconstruction looks much shorter than that of his muscle study works; and a head sculpt with open mouth and pulled back ears can indeed look larger in lateral view.

That depiction clearly has a much smaller head and a longer neck than yours regardless. Not to mention better proportioned fangs. Anyone can see that.

So do you have any images of the S. populator specimen you used? And yes, since I'm using Anton's online imagery to make my points, you are indeed insulting him along with me.

One of the La Brea Tar Pit Smilodon fossils has even longer fangs than REBOR's! Head-size seems to be good also. Quite tiny without fur. I agree with REBOR here.

Size of the fangs:

https://twitter.com/aadineen/status/1050894920804839424/photo/1

https://www.alamy.com/smilodon-the-saber-toothed-tiger-replica-skull-with-massive-canine-teeth-replica-cast-from-one-found-at-la-brea-tar-pits-la-california-usa-image263017935.html

The neck of REBOR's smilodon is slighty bend to the side, that what gives it an illusion of a shorter neck. Also take individual morphology into account (not all specimens had a huge looking neck):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Smilodon_fatalis_saber-toothed_tiger_%28Upper_Pleistocene%3B_California%2C_USA%29_1_%2815256979088%29.jpg

Those fangs on that specimen (which is S. fatalis, not populator) aren't bigger than the Rebor version's, sorry. The open mouth makes them look bigger, but they still wouldn't be sticking out as much if it were shut. Similarly, the neck on that second skeletal mount is longer.

And even taking swept back ears into account, the Rebor skull is still somewhat too long.

Common house cat anatomy is irrelevant as well given that we've already seen the Rebor model without fur and established that the proportions are still clearly off.

[REBOR_STUDIO]

One of the La Brea Tar Pit Smilodon fossils has even longer fangs than REBOR's! Head-size seems to be good also. Quite tiny without fur. I agree with REBOR here.

Size of the fangs:

https://twitter.com/aadineen/status/1050894920804839424/photo/1

https://www.alamy.com/smilodon-the-saber-toothed-tiger-replica-skull-with-massive-canine-teeth-replica-cast-from-one-found-at-la-brea-tar-pits-la-california-usa-image263017935.html

Yes, there's a reason why Smilodon could open their mouths up to 120 degrees

[Flaffy]

Off how? It was sculpted around a 3D scanned S.populator skeleton with recreated intervertebral discs and articular cartilages.

So rather than comparing different specimens (along with an entirely different species from @The Prehistoric Traveler ), can't @REBOR_STUDIO just simply show which specimen / skeleton of S. populator they referenced and scanned so that we're all on the same page?

[REBOR_STUDIO]

Fur and soft tissue can be quite deceiving sometimes, even the neck Mauricio Anton's own reconstruction looks much shorter than that of his muscle study works; and a head sculpt with open mouth and pulled back ears can indeed look larger in lateral view.

That depiction clearly has a much smaller head and a longer neck than yours regardless. Not to mention better proportioned fangs. Anyone can see that.

So do you have any images of the S. populator specimen you used? And yes, since I'm using Anton's online imagery to make my points, you are indeed insulting him along with me.

One of the La Brea Tar Pit Smilodon fossils has even longer fangs than REBOR's! Head-size seems to be good also. Quite tiny without fur. I agree with REBOR here.

Size of the fangs:

https://twitter.com/aadineen/status/1050894920804839424/photo/1

https://www.alamy.com/smilodon-the-saber-toothed-tiger-replica-skull-with-massive-canine-teeth-replica-cast-from-one-found-at-la-brea-tar-pits-la-california-usa-image263017935.html

The neck of REBOR's smilodon is slighty bend to the side, that what gives it an illusion of a shorter neck. Also take individual morphology into account (not all specimens had a huge looking neck):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Smilodon_fatalis_saber-toothed_tiger_%28Upper_Pleistocene%3B_California%2C_USA%29_1_%2815256979088%29.jpg

Those fangs on that specimen (which is S. fatalis, not populator) aren't bigger than the Rebor version's, sorry. The open mouth makes them look bigger, but they still wouldn't be sticking out as much if it were shut. Similarly, the neck on that second skeletal mount is longer.

And even taking swept back ears into account, the Rebor skull is still somewhat too long.

Common house cat anatomy is irrelevant as well given that we've already seen the Rebor model without fur and established that the proportions are still clearly off.

"somewhat too long"

So you are an expert in this field, not an average enthusiast. OK we are done here

By the way wer are not ashamed to admit that we too are average enthusiasts therefore had to spent weeks on gathering reference materials and months on sculpting, it's a combined effort of three experienced sculptors and the whole project took 20 months to finish.

[SenSx]

I can only affirm that I will buy your smilodon reproduction when my economy allows it, yes or yes. For me they are the best smilodon on the market by far and I am very happy with these figures. Keep in that way. I do not dispute whether they are scientists or not, I just like those Rebor smilodon and there is nothing more to say from me.

Yep same here, I don't care that Smilodon is still a sure buy for me, I'm honestly blown away.
Ans 2 heads is really awesome.

[REBOR_STUDIO]

Off how? It was sculpted around a 3D scanned S.populator skeleton with recreated intervertebral discs and articular cartilages.

So rather than comparing different specimens (along with an entirely different species from @The Prehistoric Traveler ), can't @REBOR_STUDIO just simply show which specimen / skeleton of S. populator they referenced and scanned so that we're all on the same page?

We borrowed it from an animator so no thank you, don't want to get into trouble

[The Prehistoric Traveler]

Fur and soft tissue can be quite deceiving sometimes, even the neck Mauricio Anton's own reconstruction looks much shorter than that of his muscle study works; and a head sculpt with open mouth and pulled back ears can indeed look larger in lateral view.

That depiction clearly has a much smaller head and a longer neck than yours regardless. Not to mention better proportioned fangs. Anyone can see that.

So do you have any images of the S. populator specimen you used? And yes, since I'm using Anton's online imagery to make my points, you are indeed insulting him along with me.

One of the La Brea Tar Pit Smilodon fossils has even longer fangs than REBOR's! Head-size seems to be good also. Quite tiny without fur. I agree with REBOR here.

Size of the fangs:

https://twitter.com/aadineen/status/1050894920804839424/photo/1

https://www.alamy.com/smilodon-the-saber-toothed-tiger-replica-skull-with-massive-canine-teeth-replica-cast-from-one-found-at-la-brea-tar-pits-la-california-usa-image263017935.html

The neck of REBOR's smilodon is slighty bend to the side, that what gives it an illusion of a shorter neck. Also take individual morphology into account (not all specimens had a huge looking neck):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Smilodon_fatalis_saber-toothed_tiger_%28Upper_Pleistocene%3B_California%2C_USA%29_1_%2815256979088%29.jpg

Those fangs on that specimen (which is S. fatalis, not populator) aren't bigger than the Rebor version's, sorry. The open mouth makes them look bigger, but they still wouldn't be sticking out as much if it were shut. Similarly, the neck on that second skeletal mount is longer.

And even taking swept back ears into account, the Rebor skull is still somewhat too long.

Common house cat anatomy is irrelevant as well given that we've already seen the Rebor model without fur and established that the proportions are still clearly off.

The neck is not longer on the fossil, sorry, and the fangs i have provided seem to be even longer. Housecat anatonomy IS clearly relevant in the point i was making. And you are clearly ignoring intraspecific variation.

This specimen is positioned like REBOR's model and what a short neck it seems to have (my point exactly). It's all about fur and angle.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D76ecSsXYAAbnOb?format=jpg&name=medium


And if you think REBOR's are longer than these it's your ego talking.

https://laistassets.scprdev.org/i/1e795a24f7b1307e34e0cf3e9d0d8371/5b2c67534488b30009285670-original.jpg

[Flaffy]

Off how? It was sculpted around a 3D scanned S.populator skeleton with recreated intervertebral discs and articular cartilages.

So rather than comparing different specimens (along with an entirely different species from @The Prehistoric Traveler ), can't @REBOR_STUDIO just simply show which specimen / skeleton of S. populator they referenced and scanned so that we're all on the same page?

We borrowed it from an animator so no thank you, don't want to get into trouble

Understandable. But surely you can provide information on which S. populator specimen that animator based their skeleton on?
We currently have no way of knowing how reliable or accurate your source is without references.

[suspsy]

Hold on. You used an animation model as a reference? Do you know what S. populator specimen it was based on if any? Do you know the animator even bothered to use any specimens for reference?

[EarthboundEiniosaurus]

Look at that chart again, ocelots are their closest relative, so seems we were both wrong.

No? Ocelots aren't even included in this phylogeny, are you looking at the spotted linsang (Prionodon pardicolor)? Again, machirodontines and felines share a sister group relationship to each other within Felidae, so any one member from either group it equally closely related to all members of the other group.

[REBOR_STUDIO]

Hold on. You used an animation model as a reference? Do you know what S. populator specimen it was based on if any? Do you know the animator even bothered to use any specimens for reference?

We mentioned that it was sculpted around a 3D scanned S.populator skeleton with recreated intervertebral discs and articular cartilages, not an animation model.

[CARN0TAURUS]

Hold on. You used an animation model as a reference? Do you know what S. populator specimen it was based on if any? Do you know the animator even bothered to use any specimens for reference?

I don't think he wants to answer that, you've asked him several times and he would've already told us which specimen they used. 

Rebor has produced produced some amazing pieces over the years but this is not one of them, yes the neck is too thick and short, the chest area/upper front limbs are way too muscular.  Why does he have to be bodybuilder sabertooth to be impressive?  From the side, the face looks strange because the nose sticks so far out it almost has a rat like appearance.  The canines are a tad long but are okay with me.  I don't like the depiction because it's the same old tired depiction with sabertooths, semi crouching, stalking, snarling.  It's like everyone will forever be forced to recreate the Charles R. Knight sabertooth in 3D.   

I think these companies try too hard to accentuate the differences between smilodon and modern large cats and they end up producing things that often don't look like cats anymore.  The definitive smilodon is yet to be produced.  I've been praying that Eofauna takes a swing at smilodon.  Minus the triceratops their sculpts tend to look more natural and lifelike because they don't overdo it.  One of my favorite illustrations of smilodon is in Mauricio Anton's book 'Sabertooth' on page 152.  It looks so natural and believable.

[GojiraGuy1954]

Hold on. You used an animation model as a reference? Do you know what S. populator specimen it was based on if any? Do you know the animator even bothered to use any specimens for reference?

I don't think he wants to answer that, you've asked him several times and he would've already told us which specimen they used. 

Rebor has produced produced some amazing pieces over the years but this is not one of them, yes the neck is too thick and short, the chest area/upper front limbs are way too muscular.  Why does he have to be bodybuilder sabertooth to be impressive?  From the side, the face looks strange because the nose sticks so far out it almost has a rat like appearance.  The canines are a tad long but are okay with me.  I don't like the depiction because it's the same old tired depiction with sabertooths, semi crouching, stalking, snarling.  It's like everyone will forever be forced to recreate the Charles R. Knight sabertooth in 3D.   

I think these companies try too hard to accentuate the differences between smilodon and modern large cats and they end up producing things that often don't look like cats anymore.  The definitive smilodon is yet to be produced.  I've been praying that Eofauna takes a swing at smilodon.  Minus the triceratops their sculpts tend to look more natural and lifelike because they don't overdo it.  One of my favorite illustrations of smilodon is in Mauricio Anton's book 'Sabertooth' on page 152.  It looks so natural and believable.

Smilodon was a very muscular animal though. Moreso than even modern tigers if i remember correctly

[CARN0TAURUS]

Hold on. You used an animation model as a reference? Do you know what S. populator specimen it was based on if any? Do you know the animator even bothered to use any specimens for reference?

I don't think he wants to answer that, you've asked him several times and he would've already told us which specimen they used. 

Rebor has produced produced some amazing pieces over the years but this is not one of them, yes the neck is too thick and short, the chest area/upper front limbs are way too muscular.  Why does he have to be bodybuilder sabertooth to be impressive?  From the side, the face looks strange because the nose sticks so far out it almost has a rat like appearance.  The canines are a tad long but are okay with me.  I don't like the depiction because it's the same old tired depiction with sabertooths, semi crouching, stalking, snarling.  It's like everyone will forever be forced to recreate the Charles R. Knight sabertooth in 3D.   

I think these companies try too hard to accentuate the differences between smilodon and modern large cats and they end up producing things that often don't look like cats anymore.  The definitive smilodon is yet to be produced.  I've been praying that Eofauna takes a swing at smilodon.  Minus the triceratops their sculpts tend to look more natural and lifelike because they don't overdo it.  One of my favorite illustrations of smilodon is in Mauricio Anton's book 'Sabertooth' on page 152.  It looks so natural and believable.

Smilodon was a very muscular animal though. Moreso than even modern tigers if i remember correctly

I think it's interesting that our friend from rebor posted a Mauricio Anton recreation of the musculature and with the fur but if you superimpose that image with rebor's own computer images for the musculature their sculpt the rebor reconstruction is clearly way more beefed up.  It's like the difference between a gymnast and a professional body builder.

I think it's a beautiful piece from an artistic point of view, but the person that compared this cat to those seen on classic works of fantasy was spot on.  This guy would be perfect with a saddle, body armor, and body builder type wielding a giant battle axe.  But for those of us that still want a scientifically accurate and believable smilodon in a natural pose doing cat things like resting, taking a kitty bath, or surveying the landscape in search of prey etc...  the wait continues... 

[Rivera2171]

I just cant understand why some people on here are so dead set on bashing the [MOD REDACTED] out of Rebor. Surely there are more worthwhile ventures in life then to constantly slam a toy company for trying to make exciting and engaging collectables for fans?

[Halichoeres]

I don't care much about this figure one way or the other but @EarthboundEiniosaurus is correct here. The closest thing to an ocelot in that cladogram they posted is the kodkod, which, along with all other living cats and some extinct ones not shown, is in the sister clade to the machairodonts. All living cats are therefore more closely related to each other than to Smilodon, and Smilodon is equally closely related to all living cats: ocelots, tigers, house cats, clouded leopards and lynxes alike. If I may toot my own horn a bit, I wrote an explainer on reading cladograms here: https://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3586.msg104482#msg104482