David Silva’s Cyberzoic Series

[Sim]

The Utahraptor is the BotM version, not the Cyberzoic one.  I think both the BotM and Safari 2023 Utahraptor are very good.  I don't think one is better than the other.  We can vote for which we like in a new top 10 deinonychosaur figures poll, which I'll be happy to organise after five years have passed from the completion of the current one (the top 10 dromaeosaurid and troodontid toys poll).  So in November 2024 at the earliest.

[Faelrin]

@Sim Agreed. Both are good takes, and it's great to have accurate options on this giant dromaeosaurid after so long.

Also that's a good idea. Gives it a good bit of time to wait for the Cyberzoic/Botm versions to be produced and shipped (hopefully), and also plenty of time for the Safari Ltd one to reach folks hands.

[Ikessauro]

I don't think one is better than the other.

Given that "better" is subjective, in my eyes, the BOTM/Cyberzoic whatever it is, is miles better.

It might be better because it has a different purpose (more like adult collectible than kids toy, it is more expensive etc), but in the end of the day, no matter what are the reasons behind it, it's better.

No disrespect to Safari, I love their models, and buy them. Huge fan of the brand. But IMHO saying one is not better than the other is like saying Nanmu's JW Giganotosaurus is not better than Mattel's. It clearly is, in almost every aspect. Will buy the Safari one regardless.

[Sim]

I don't know about Nanmu and Mattel's Giganotosaurus as I dislike Nanmu and the JW series so I have avoided seeing much of them.  If "better" is subjective, like you said, then it's also valid for me to feel that neither Utahraptor is better.  There are areas where one is better than the other though.

@Faelrin, I'm very keen on a new top 10 deinonychosaur figures poll, as there's a lot of good figures/planned figures that aren't in the current version of the poll: BotM raptor series species, BotM 1:18 dromaeosaurids (including small species, Utahraptor and Achillobator, Deinonychus), the new Safari Deinonychus and Utahraptor, the PNSO Mei.  I hope there will be an accurate standing/walking/running troodontid figure when the new poll is made.

[Flaffy]

Think the 2023 Safari ltd Utahraptor has a competitor now.

You are being so generous with Safari's Utah.    This Cyberzoic is way above its league. So much so it is not even a competition.

I'd agree had the BotM sculpt used the BYU "Gaston" skull. But it doesn't. Safari thus has a big edge over it (accuracy wise) by being based off that updated boxy skull.

Both figures serve their respective purpose perfectly well. If Safari wasn't so constrained by paint budget, I'm sure they can produce something spectacular as well.

[Sim]

Are you sure the newer reconstuction of that skeleton is more accurate?  We've established the premaxilla is variable among specimens, so what does the Creative Beast Utahraptor lack with regards to accuracy?

[Flaffy]

Are you sure the newer reconstuction of that skeleton is more accurate?  We've established the premaxilla is variable among specimens, so what does the Creative Beast Utahraptor lack with regards to accuracy?

I was under the impression that Hartman's morphology is more consistent with younger/smaller specimens. While Gaston represents a large/mature individual.

The BotM Utahraptor would be 1/14-16 scale if based on 4.9-5.5m estimates. So at the advertised 1/18 scale, it represents a particularly large, almost 6.2m specimen. IMO it makes much more sense to base the skull off of known large specimens rather than smaller ones.

[Flaffy]

First look at the Beasts of the Mesozoic Achillobator by Matt Holt. (+ comparison with David's Cyberzoic version)
I can't decide which one I like more. But on the other hand, I wonder if the factory will be capable of replicating the naturalistic intricacy of Holt's work on both the Utrahraptor and Achillobator.

A question on anatomy: Do y'all think both the Utahraptor and Achillobator share the same underlying headsculpt? Just with different integument on top of the same skull recon.

[Stegotyranno420]

Looks beautiful. It looks very similar to my artworks of my Utahraptor, and i love that

[Faelrin]

@Flaffy @Sim

I wonder if it be too late to update the head sculpt? Or provide a new alternative head based on that other specimen (kind of like how the Smilodon will have an alternate head, or the adult Triceratops with the extra pair of horns)? I mean the former was done ages ago for the Zhenyuanlong. I'd be glad to pay a bit more for another display option, especially with the work on the original headsculpt done already.

Kickstarter is still quite a ways off from now in any case.

Also yeah both those Achillobator look great too. Never was a huge fan of the vulture look on dromaeosaurs, but something about these two entice. Glad I have all this time to decide on things and hopefully in stable or better situation.

[Flaffy]

@Flaffy @Sim

I wonder if it be too late to update the head sculpt?

The BYU specimen was already brought up to David when the head sculpt was first revealed. David decided not to change it then, so I doubt he'd do it now.

[Sim]

I was under the impression that Hartman's morphology is more consistent with younger/smaller specimens. While Gaston represents a large/mature individual.

The BotM Utahraptor would be 1/14-16 scale if based on 4.9-5.5m estimates. So at the advertised 1/18 scale, it represents a particularly large, almost 6.2m specimen. IMO it makes much more sense to base the skull off of known large specimens rather than smaller ones.

What is the source for the premaxilla shape being dependent on age?  The Utahraptor holotype is an adult and has the premaxilla shape seen in Scott Hartman's skeletal.  It already looks different from a baby Utahraptor's, and it seems unlikely the premaxilla shape would change again in adulthood.  The image below shows two Utahraptor specimen premaxilla that are relevant.

  (Image source)

[Flaffy]

I was under the impression that Hartman's morphology is more consistent with younger/smaller specimens. While Gaston represents a large/mature individual.

The BotM Utahraptor would be 1/14-16 scale if based on 4.9-5.5m estimates. So at the advertised 1/18 scale, it represents a particularly large, almost 6.2m specimen. IMO it makes much more sense to base the skull off of known large specimens rather than smaller ones.

What is the source for the premaxilla shape being dependent on age?  The Utahraptor holotype is an adult and has the premaxilla shape seen in Scott Hartman's skeletal.  It already looks different from a baby Utahraptor's, and it seems unlikely the premaxilla shape would change again in adulthood.  The image below shows two Utahraptor specimen premaxilla that are relevant.

  (Image source)

The holotype (+paratype) and BYU specimens scaled next to each other. Even if age wasn't a factor, why base the morphology off a small individual when you're trying to represent a particularly large one?

[Sim]

It's strange though that in the image you shared, the BYU specimen has the same premaxilla shape as the holotype.  I don't have a problem with using a figure based on a smaller specimen to represent a specimen of maximum size, such as the Safari 2019 Stegosaurus.  Regarding why David used a smaller specimen when wanting to represent a max size specimen, I think it was just a matter of basing the figure on Scott Hartman's skeletal and not being aware a larger specimen with a different snout shape existed.  There's nothing inaccurate in the Creative Beast Utahraptor when representing an adult, as far as I'm aware.

As for your earlier question, I had been thinking the Utahraptor and Achillobator figures had the same skull, but comparing the two I notice that the Achillobator appears to not have Utahraptor figure's procumbent teeth

[Flaffy]

It's strange though that in the image you shared, the BYU specimen has the same premaxilla shape as the holotype.  I don't have a problem with using a figure based on a smaller specimen to represent a specimen of maximum size, such as the Safari 2019 Stegosaurus.  Regarding why David used a smaller specimen when wanting to represent a max size specimen, I think it was just a matter of basing the figure on Scott Hartman's skeletal and not being aware a larger specimen with a different snout shape existed.  There's nothing inaccurate in the Creative Beast Utahraptor when representing an adult, as far as I'm aware.

I don't think Gunnar accounted for the new boxy skull at the time of posting, but the scaling should be sound between the two.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. I don't agree with simply upscaling the exact proportions of Sophie (a subadult) to represent a mature Stegosaurus. Likewise, while I recognise that it's not strictly inaccurate per se to base a large reconstruction off Hartman's; since we have hard evidence of the more robust skull in giant Utahraptor specimens, it would've been more appropriate IMO to base the reconstruction after BYU rather than the holotype. It's like trying upscale "Stan" to represent a maximum sized Tyrannosaurus, whilst ignoring that actual giant specimens like Scotty and Sue exist, both with noticeably different proportions compared to the more gracile Stan.

Moreover, it would help differenciate between the two dromaeosaur figures even more. So an added plus there.

As for your earlier question, I had been thinking the Utahraptor and Achillobator figures had the same skull, but comparing the two I notice that the Achillobator appears to not have Utahraptor figure's procumbent teeth

Good observation! Very tempted to pick up an Achillobator if the skulls are truly different (however minor). Just have to decide between the Cyberzoic vs BotM versions...

[suspsy]

I've finally added images of the BotM Achillobator and Utahraptor to the OP.

[Faelrin]

New pics of the 3D printed Dilophosaurus sculpt were shared. I'll add them here once I get on my laptop later today unless someone here beats me to the punch. Thought I would give a heads up. Seems to be slightly bigger and longer then the Mattel Amber Collection JP for anyone wondering. Will be nice to have both a paleo accurate and mostly film accurate option together, at least in my case where I like both.

Edit: @EmperorDinobot did share some of the images below my post.

[EmperorDinobot]

Only slightly bigger.

[Carnoking]

That dilo is glorious, no two ways about it.

[EmperorDinobot]

I believe this is with FC Pyroraptor. I opened the AC Dilophosaurus last night, and it's about the same size as a raptor, so this is somewhat bigger yea.