HAOLONGGOOD - New For 2023

[thomasw100]

The author of this video complains about missing thumb claws. However, from what I read, the hands of titanosaurs had evolved compared to earlier sauropods in such a way that the semi-circular shape turned into more circular shape and they also had mostly lost the thumb claws. I am currently not aware when this transition actually happened, but given that Ampelosaurus is a Late Cretaceous species I would think that it should have the fully evolved form of the hands.

[Shane]

The author of this video complains about missing thumb claws. However, from what I read, the hands of titanosaurs had evolved compared to earlier sauropods in such a way that the semi-circular shape turned into more circular shape and they also had mostly lost the thumb claws. I am currently not aware when this transition actually happened, but given that Ampelosaurus is a Late Cretaceous species I would think that it should have the fully evolved form of the hands.

My understanding is that titanosaurs often don't have their forelimbs preserved particularly well, especially the terminal digits, so the idea that most don't have thumb claws is based on the few examples we do have. If I remember correctly most of the better preserved examples are fairly derived, so it's not really known exactly when they would have gone completely thumb claw-less. But most depictions show titanosaurs with no thumb claws.

But ultimately I think for many titanosaurs, especially more basal titanosaurs, nobody really knows for sure.

[Halichoeres]

If only wrist joints weren't such fragile things. Similarly, the number of early archosaurs missing their hands has helped give rise to the frequently made--but incorrect--assertion that all archosaurs have at most three claws.

[Faelrin]

@Halichoeres I know this topic has come up before on the forum, but do you have any specific examples of animals that have more then the three?

[Basilosaurus]

ayyy 100 pages!!

[Halichoeres]

Halichoeres I know this topic has come up before on the forum, but do you have any specific examples of animals that have more then the three?

Postosuchus has five manual unguals, and trackways of Chirotherium seem to show impressions of five claws, although trackways can be hard to interpret. That's for the crocodile line (most stem-crocs do not have a complete hand preserved).

Sarahsaurus has four manual unguals. A description of the forelimb of Pinacosaurus says there is an isolated ungual that doesn't make sense anywhere except the fifth digit. So that's both major branches of dinosaurs.

Venetoraptor has four manual unguals, although some of the intervening phalanges are missing. So that's the lineage that likely led to pterosaurs.

Once you start looking, you notice that a ton of animals are missing their forefoot, since it's lightweight and easily detached. So we have to extrapolate from the few that we get.

[Faelrin]

@Halichoeres Thanks for providing those examples. Despite being familar with Postoscuhus, I wasn't aware of that.

Since Sarahsaurus had that many, I wonder if the far earlier Eoraptor might have had that many as well, if not five?

A bit more on topic, I hope Haolonggood continues to put out sauropods. I would love to see them expand to sauropodomorphs in the future too. Even with its imperfections, the recent Ampelosaurus is still a lovely one. The above mentioned Sarahsaurus and Eoraptor could use some figures especially (the latter only has the 2024 figure that I'm aware, and none for the former). Sarahsaurus would be a nice pick, since they are working on an upcoming Dilophosaurus, and it lived alongside it (as well as Scelidosaurus and Scutellosaurus, both that desperately could use some up to date models based on the recent papers they had).

[thomasw100]

I just received my Haolonggood Ampelosaurus, the black variant, today. What a beauty. The detail of the sculpting and the quality of the paint application has in my view now reached the level of PNSO. It would be lovely if Haolonggood would keep producing more sauropods. They have shown that they can do them masterfully.

[Leyster]

@Halichoeres

I saw some posts about the matter on Andrea Cau's Theropoda Blog page and:

The distal phalanges of digit IV and V of Sarahsaurus are not unguals, just short discoidal phalanges with a rounded distal surface.

Based on the published material, it is not clear what is the phalangeal formula of Venetoraptor hand. In particular, how many fingers actually bear unguals?

[Sim]

I just received my Haolonggood Ampelosaurus, the black variant, today. What a beauty. The detail of the sculpting and the quality of the paint application has in my view now reached the level of PNSO. It would be lovely if Haolonggood would keep producing more sauropods. They have shown that they can do them masterfully.

There are two sauropods I'd like from Haolonggood:
1. Amargasaurus.  I'd just say be careful to make sure the first neck spine is single not paired, and that the spines need to be connected by a sail as per the latest paper on the subject.
2. Nigersaurus.  A 1:35 figure of this other unusual sauropod would be great to have!
Both of these species are smallish so they would fit in my collection, and the collection of others, easily.

[Flaffy]

I just received my Haolonggood Ampelosaurus, the black variant, today. What a beauty. The detail of the sculpting and the quality of the paint application has in my view now reached the level of PNSO. It would be lovely if Haolonggood would keep producing more sauropods. They have shown that they can do them masterfully.

There are two sauropods I'd like from Haolonggood:
1. Amargasaurus.  I'd just say be careful to make sure the first neck spine is single not paired, and that the spines need to be connected by a sail as per the latest paper on the subject.
2. Nigersaurus.  A 1:35 figure of this other unusual sauropod would be great to have!
Both of these species are smallish so they would fit in my collection, and the collection of others, easily.

100% seconded on Nigersaurus. Been waiting forever for an updated one with accurate proportions. Would display very well with Haolonggood's fantastic Ouranosaurus.

And IF we get a Nigersaurus, maybe Haolonggood will consider a Lurdusaurus to round out the Elrhaz Formation?

[thomasw100]

I just received my Haolonggood Ampelosaurus, the black variant, today. What a beauty. The detail of the sculpting and the quality of the paint application has in my view now reached the level of PNSO. It would be lovely if Haolonggood would keep producing more sauropods. They have shown that they can do them masterfully.

There are two sauropods I'd like from Haolonggood:
1. Amargasaurus.  I'd just say be careful to make sure the first neck spine is single not paired, and that the spines need to be connected by a sail as per the latest paper on the subject.
2. Nigersaurus.  A 1:35 figure of this other unusual sauropod would be great to have!
Both of these species are smallish so they would fit in my collection, and the collection of others, easily.

My feeling is that Haolonggood will make sauropods from different groups and also those that have different appearance, features and sizes. My first guesses would be a large titanosaur along the lines of the rumored Alamosaurus, then maybe a Brachiosaurus and perhaps a smaller earlier sauropod like Shunosaurus. There may also be a Mamenchisaurus in 1:35 because it is such an iconic Chinese dinosaur species and the PNSO model is in 1:45.

[Sim]

@Flaffy, good point about Nigersaurus going well with Haolonggood's Ouranosaurus!  And I'd be interested in a Lurdusaurus too.  Lurdusaurus and Nigersaurus with the correct proportions would make unique figures.

The CollectA Mamenchisaurus is around 1:35 scale according to @Halichoeres, using the species the skull and tail club is based on.  I'm satisfied with it, it's a wonderful figure.

[Leyster]

@Sim there are way too many uncertainties on Lurdusaurus' proportions to do something close to accurate.

[Abobo]

From Paleofiguras

[SidB]

Cool face-off with Watson's excellent Safari.

[Halichoeres]

I saw some posts about the matter on Andrea Cau's Theropoda Blog page and:

The distal phalanges of digit IV and V of Sarahsaurus are not unguals, just short discoidal phalanges with a rounded distal surface.

Based on the published material, it is not clear what is the phalangeal formula of Venetoraptor hand. In particular, how many fingers actually bear unguals?

I'll take his word on Sarahsaurus. It's perfectly true that the phalangeal formula is not currently known for Venetoraptor, but there seem to be too many long, recurved ones for there to be only three on a hand.

Anyway, that doesn't really refute the larger point, which is that a lot of people (I'm not accusing you of this, incidentally) look at dinosaurs and then at the extremely depleted extant crocodile lineage, and conclude that three or fewer claws is some kind of archosaur synapomorphy.

I also found a description of a therizinosaur that says digits III and IV have well-developed unguals, but I think this is a case of making an unorthodox homology claim. That is, I think they're calling III and IV what most researchers would call II and III.

[Leyster]

Anyway, that doesn't really refute the larger point, which is that a lot of people (I'm not accusing you of this, incidentally) look at dinosaurs and then at the extremely depleted extant crocodile lineage, and conclude that three or fewer claws is some kind of archosaur synapomorphy.

I also found a description of a therizinosaur that says digits III and IV have well-developed unguals, but I think this is a case of making an unorthodox homology claim. That is, I think they're calling III and IV what most researchers would call II and III.

Probably that description was following the Frame Shift Hypothesis à la  Xu et al. 2009. An idea that if I recall correctly the very same author abbandoned in Xu et al (2023)

[Prehistory Resurrection]

[Prehistory Resurrection]