David Silvas New Kickstarter: Articulated Dinosaur TOYS

[Papi-Anon]

the most accurate Balaur figure (assuming its not the first and only figure of Balaur so far).

Nope, certainly not the first:
http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2567.0

As for accuracy, time will tell (if ever). Then again I'm still hoping that future post-cranial remains of Andrewsarchus will show it was built like a mesonychid (despite the evidence more likely that it was built like its cousins the entelodonts).

[Flaffy]

Thanks for the information Dinoguy2, really helped my understanding of these two theropods! 
Then should the arm feathers of Zhenyuanlong be longer/bigger? (just a question)

[Rain]

I'm pledged for the Double Savage and 2 stretch-goal raptors (pair of Balaurs is my choice). I plan to modify the paintjobs on one of each for female colors of the birds that the colors are based on. I believe Atrociraptor was based on a species of cockatoo (glossy-something, I believe).

Was it ever confirmed what bird coloration Balaur is based on? I thought it was a cassowary...

It's based on an Anhinga

[Sim]

Zhenyuanlong should NOT have long feathers of the humerus people! Look at the fossil!

(My favorite thing about this specimen is that not only is it in the same posture as the Berlin Archaeopteryx, but it has almost the same feather proportions. The concept art gave it a Microraptor tail for some reason).

David has said, "my sculpts are always better than my drawings"!  In a Facebook post a while ago he said the Zhenyuanlong's tail feathers would match with the fossil's rather than his concept art.  On the Kickstarter, he said corrections to the Buitreraptor's body shape, and the length of the Microraptor's forelimb feathers, hindlimb feathers and tail feathers would all happen in the sculpting stage.  In the main comments section of the Kickstarter there was also talk of changing the Microraptor's pose.

As for Baler's foot, the second sickle claw is indeed a modified dew claw. BUT, it's modified to not just be larger, but also lower on the foot as in therizinosaurs and birds (whose dewclaw was modified into the perching hallux).

Here's a Balaur skeletal:

Note how low the second sickle claw is compared to the figure. In the figure, it seems to be attached to the ankle joint rather than being closer to the main toe joints.

I've been comparing the Balaur prototype photos to skeletals and the fossil and to me it seems the position of the first toe could be correct.  The figure appears to be on the tip of its toes, its toes are poseable, and the perspective in the photos could throw things off a bit.  I think I've been misled by the perspective of a figure in pre-release photos at least twice in the past.

The leg proportions overall look way off compared to the body and seem to be basically the same as Velociraptor. Maybe this is a limitation of the kit-based assembly, but it's certainly not something that looks like Balaur.

In Balaur, the legs should actually be pretty long compared to the body. The reason it's "stocky" is the leg proportions. Upper and lower leg are the same length, rendering it a slow runner. Upper foot (metatarsals) is very short, less than half the length of the lower leg, also similar to therizinosaurs. In the model, it has typical "raptor" proportions, with shorter femur, slightly longer tibia, and tarsals a little over half of tibia length. Add to that the overall shortness, and the legs looks too short compared to the body to be Balaur.

As far as I can see, the femur of Balaur is unknown?  I've given up trying to work out if the tibia and tarsals are correctly proportioned in the figure as I can't be sure when I'm only looking at photos of an articulated figure where the perspective could be misleading.  If the proportions aren't correct, they don't seem far off to me...

I'm also a little disappointed by this, because Balaur is only known from the legs and torso, so if you don't get those unique proportions right, it's not so much a "Balaur" as a "generic raptor with extra claw".

(And yes, it's missing the digit 3, but they all should be since 2 and 3 were probably fused together by soft tissue in life.)

Balaur is also known from its forelimbs.  Balaur's third digit is apparently reduced to a single tiny phalanx, so its hands would look unlike those of the others where the third digit hasn't become vestigial and ends in a claw.  For an example of this see the comparison of Balaur's hand to Deinonychus's here: https://peerj.com/articles/1032/#fig-2

I've never seen it suggested that a dromaeosaurid's second and third digit would be fused in life before.  I'm not sure how likely that is though.  Even if their second and third digit were fused that wouldn't make digit 3 be missing, since it's still there, claw and all.  In Balaur, digit 3 is missing because it's reduced to a tiny bone that I get the impression wouldn't be noticeable externally.

If I were to recommend a fix, I'd say the easiest thing to do is just double length of the upper two leg pieces. Not sure if that's doable. Giving it a shorter snout more like Archaeopteryx or even Zhenyuanlong would also help make it looks different from a generic raptor. Not sure why the package artist gave it such a snout, unless he's still operating under the assumption that it's a velociraptorine.

If you'd like a figure to be made more accurate, I think what is most likely to achieve this is telling David what's inaccurate and should be changed.  He wants to make these figures accurate, and he's open to people's thoughts about this.

[Dobber]

David has responded and will be correcting the "dew" claws position. Very good of him. 

Chris

[Shadowknight1]

David has responded and will be correcting the "dew" claws position. Very good of him. 

Chris

He also replied to me regarding Zhenyuanlong:

the Zhenyuanlong figure will have unique primaries and tail to resembled a look similar to Jonathan's art. I'm really looking forward to this one.

I like hearing that because that box art for Zhenyuanlong is lovely.  I can't wait to see it!

[Faelrin]

Thanks to those that added to and corrected my understanding of the position of Balaur's first digit. I was right about one thing, but  off on the other. And thanks for the mentioning of that other Balaur figure, Crash. I think it looks cute too.

Now I'm just wondering if the prototype of Balaur will be altered to reflect it more accurately, aside from the final figure, since he said he'd be fixing it. Can't wait to see it done either way.

[Sim]

I'm pledged for the Double Savage and 2 stretch-goal raptors (pair of Balaurs is my choice). I plan to modify the paintjobs on one of each for female colors of the birds that the colors are based on. I believe Atrociraptor was based on a species of cockatoo (glossy-something, I believe).

Was it ever confirmed what bird coloration Balaur is based on? I thought it was a cassowary...

It's based on an Anhinga

As for the Atrociraptor and any others of the original 12, here's a link I posted earlier in this thread to a list of what the bird inspirations are: link

And a little further down in the comments there is that comment by David where he said he would change the Zhenyuanlong's tail from how it is in the concept art.

[Dinoguy2]

Regarding the fusion of digits 2 and 3 in paravians, this is supported mainly by the presence of primary feathers. In modern birds, primaries don't simply attach to digit 2 as people often think/draw, but rather they anchor into a significantly large soft tissue patagium made of ligaments, skin, and connective tissue that wraps around digit 2 and 3. The quills attach to ligaments, and the ligaments connect under the skin/muscle to the bones of digit 2.



This is usually associated with a flat flange of bone on the second and or third digits, which dromaeosaurids have, as GSP pointed out in Dinosaurs of the Air.

This pattern shows up in fossils, too, as in almost all cases, the second two fingers of paravians are preserved closely adhered with only the distal end spread apart. This can be seen clearly in "Dave":


Featherless paravians would look like this: (note the connected fingers and patagia)


Search up some photos of articulated par avian fossils with spread-apart second and third fingers. They're quite rare, and in the few instances they exist, it's probably due to disarticulation/decomposition of the patagium (otherwise they'd probably be more common).

So yeah, Balaur would still lack the third claw, which would be visible in the figure. But if the other ones were more accurate, they'd look like they had two claws poking out of one fat finger on the underside of the wing.

Artists eventually figured out/got used to Iguanodon's "mittens", hopefully they'll eventually figure out par avian "mittens" too

[Faelrin]

So there was an update on the artwork for Adasaurus and Dromaeosaurus, adding in the primaries. While I was okay with the original art, an update to make it look the best it can be, is always fine with me.

Also I just read about something on DinoGoss last night (which mentioned this line too), regarding the tails. Of how dromaeosaurids probably had tails more like Archaeopteryx, or like Zhenyuanlong, instead of the fan like tail Microraptor had. Thoughts on this? I'm not going to ask to change anything especially since 5 of those prototypes are done, with a 6 on its way (though that one will probably be changed to make the toes more accurate). I'm just wondering if its wrong to have the tails they do now (I'd like to try to keep my knowledge on these animals as up to date as possible)?

[Dinoguy2]

So there was an update on the artwork for Adasaurus and Dromaeosaurus, adding in the primaries. While I was okay with the original art, an update to make it look the best it can be, is always fine with me.

Also I just read about something on DinoGoss last night (which mentioned this line too), regarding the tails. Of how dromaeosaurids probably had tails more like Archaeopteryx, or like Zhenyuanlong, instead of the fan like tail Microraptor had. Thoughts on this? I'm not going to ask to change anything especially since 5 of those prototypes are done, with a 6 on its way (though that one will probably be changed to make the toes more accurate). I'm just wondering if its wrong to have the tails they do now (I'd like to try to keep my knowledge on these animals as up to date as possible)?

And the new Dromaeosaurus package art has pretty blatant wrist wings...

[Faelrin]

It does. I'm having trouble telling if that's the case with the other artwork too. It may have been too late for that to be fixed though, without them redoing most of the piece. I don't know for sure though, since I'm not an artist. At least it has the primaries now.

As long as the figures don't have that issue though (from what I've seen on the website, the ones so far look about right), then I'm good, especially since I'm leaning on the Dromaeosaurus as an addon when the survey comes. I still like the art, but being accurate (to our current understanding at least) would have been better, of course.

Quick edit: Skipped a word by mistake, added it in.

[Sim]

I wonder though, about the distal parts of digits 2 and 3 being fused in dromaeosaurids.  I've seen fossils preserve them in different positions from each other, that photo of Dave for example has the distal parts of digit 3 in different positions on each hand.  In that illustration of featherless dromaeosaurids, it looks like the Dromaeosaurus and Velociraptor don't have the distal parts of digits 2 and 3 fused.  Additionally, Scott Hartman hasn't restored the distal parts of those digits fused in his skeletals, e.g. Velociraptor, Deinonychus, Microraptor.

[Shadowknight1]

So there was an update on the artwork for Adasaurus and Dromaeosaurus, adding in the primaries. While I was okay with the original art, an update to make it look the best it can be, is always fine with me.

Also I just read about something on DinoGoss last night (which mentioned this line too), regarding the tails. Of how dromaeosaurids probably had tails more like Archaeopteryx, or like Zhenyuanlong, instead of the fan like tail Microraptor had. Thoughts on this? I'm not going to ask to change anything especially since 5 of those prototypes are done, with a 6 on its way (though that one will probably be changed to make the toes more accurate). I'm just wondering if its wrong to have the tails they do now (I'd like to try to keep my knowledge on these animals as up to date as possible)?

And the new Dromaeosaurus package art has pretty blatant wrist wings...

Aren't they all like that?  And I thought I read someone saying that David has the primaries attach at the wrists due to articulation?

[Sim]

I read David say the hand and primaries have to be made separately, which is why the primaries aren't actually attached to the second finger.  He also said, "On the final toy, I may be able to have the factory glue the wing to the finger".  I think it would be good if the factory did that.  I read all this in the comments on this photo: https://www.facebook.com/113487525333128/photos/a.1154970781184792.1073741847.113487525333128/1341370972544771/?type=3&theater

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

One could always glue them themselves if they wanted too.

[Sim]

When I've glued parts of figures together in the past using superglue, white marks would often form around the glued area.  That's the main reason I'm not keen to glue them myself.  I would also be worried about messing up the figure by unintentionally applying too much or too little glue.  Since these figures aren't easy to replace due to their price and limited quantities, if the primaries aren't glued to the finger, I think I won't glue them together...

[empire3569]

It looks like in his most recent comments that he's going to add lips to all the models

[Sim]

David said out of the ones he's sculpted so far, only the Velociraptor and Saurornitholestes lack lips (meaning the Atrociraptor, Tsaagan and Balaur have lips), and he had planned to give lips to most of the raptors.  Like someone else said in the comments, I think it's not very likely some dromaeosaurids had lips and some didn't.  I think it would bother me if the raptor figures I have from this series have two contradicting beliefs on how they look, which would mean when their mouths are closed some will have teeth hanging outside their mouths while others won't.  I do find dromaeosaurids having lips more convincing than them lacking lips.  I'm glad David says adding lips to the few raptors that would have lacked them is a fairly simple modification he's leaning towards.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

When I've glued parts of figures together in the past using superglue, white marks would often form around the glued area.  That's the main reason I'm not keen to glue them myself.  I would also be worried about messing up the figure by unintentionally applying too much or too little glue.  Since these figures aren't easy to replace due to their price and limited quantities, if the primaries aren't glued to the finger, I think I won't glue them together...

it's not hard and there are my types of ahesives one could try , if you decide to give it a go when the time comes just me know.

David said out of the ones he's sculpted so far, only the Velociraptor and Saurornitholestes lack lips (meaning the Atrociraptor, Tsaagan and Balaur have lips), and he had planned to give lips to most of the raptors.  Like someone else said in the comments, I think it's not very likely some dromaeosaurids had lips and some didn't.  I think it would bother me if the raptor figures I have from this series have two contradicting beliefs on how they look, which would mean when their mouths are closed some will have teeth hanging outside their mouths while others won't.  I do find dromaeosaurids having lips more convincing than them lacking lips.  I'm glad David says adding lips to the few raptors that would have lacked them is a fairly simple modification he's leaning towards.

Why not just make them more beaks with recessed teeth?