David Silvas New Kickstarter: Articulated Dinosaur TOYS

[Dinoguy2]

Well at least the Buitreraptor sculpt looks much better! Mononykus is still way off. And Microraptor looks based on the terrible inaccurate diagram in the M. gui description. Somebody should point David to the diagram in the coloration paper for accurate wing proportions. The entire body especially the neck is so skinny I thought it might be featherless. The profile should resemble a bird, not a compy. This is an acceptable Microraptor for 2001, not 2016 when so many good artists have produced such a massive quantity of good reference material. It's not possible to get such a well known dinosaur so obviously wrong if any decent research was done. Sorry if this sounds harsh but it's true. There are dozens of complete specimens with complete feathers to look at and hundreds of artistic depictions have been done accurately and many of them pop up first in Google. David seems to have taken a skeletal and shrink wrapped it without reference to any soft tissue evidence. Looking at a skeletal is not research.

This is what Microraptor looked like. There's no controversy and very little wiggle room. I found these images illustrating a variety of postures in about 3 minutes.




I'm getting more and more disappointed in this line the more I realize scientific accuracy is being used as a buzzword with little research to back it up just like in all the other, much cheaper lines. Even the Safari Microraptor is slightly more accurate than this!

[Sim]

@Dinoguy2: I did notice references David's using for Microraptor in that photo are outdated.  I'm planning to tell him things I know about this, but I don't have the time to do so right now.  Anyway, I think it would be great if you tell him what you know about reconstructing Microraptor correctly too, I think it will make a better figure more likely!  Maybe comment on the Facebook photo, there's already a comment about Microraptor's tail fan there: https://www.facebook.com/113487525333128/photos/a.125819777433236.23596.113487525333128/1466973853317815/?type=3&comment_id=1467013369980530&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D

Image of unique and shared parts of the raptors

That one has inconsistencies, expect a corrected version soon that might also list the variant figures : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/creativebeast/beasts-of-the-mesozoic-raptor-series-action-figure/comments?cursor=14429143#comment-14429142

[Dinoguy2]

@Dinoguy2: I did notice references David's using for Microraptor in that photo are outdated.  I'm planning to tell him things I know about this, but I don't have the time to do so right now.  Anyway, I think it would be great if you tell him what you know about reconstructing Microraptor correctly too, I think it will make a better figure more likely!  Maybe comment on the Facebook photo, there's already a comment about Microraptor's tail fan there: https://www.facebook.com/113487525333128/photos/a.125819777433236.23596.113487525333128/1466973853317815/?type=3&comment_id=1467013369980530&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D

Image of unique and shared parts of the raptors

That one has inconsistencies, expect a corrected version soon that might also list the variant figures : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/creativebeast/beasts-of-the-mesozoic-raptor-series-action-figure/comments?cursor=14429143#comment-14429142

I read that post. Reply was not encouraging. "I've seen several versions of this" should be a hint to research why or if some are right and some are wrong, not to choose the version you like best.

I'd comment but I generally avoid commenting on public FB posts for privacy reasons.

[Sim]

I think it's possible to send him a private message on Facebook.  Only if you wanted to of course.

[terrorchicken]

I think the guy's just become really busy/overwhelmed with the workload.

all these artist's depictions of microraptors are blackish blue, how do they know it was that color?

[MLMjp]

I think the guy's just become really busy/overwhelmed with the workload.

all these artist's depictions of microraptors are blackish blue, how do they know it was that color?

How can you not be aware of that?!  
It is because paleontologist examined the feathers preserved in the fossils with a microscope and they founded the(I don't know how it´s called) thing/gene/pigment that gives feather it´s colors preserved, after comparing them to those of modern bird they found that iridescent blue must have been the colors of Microraptor´s feathers.

Edit: Melanin that´s it, thanks Dinoguy!

[Dinoguy2]

I think the guy's just become really busy/overwhelmed with the workload.

all these artist's depictions of microraptors are blackish blue, how do they know it was that color?

A few years ago they sampled melanin from 20 parts of the body in one specimen and found that it's color was dark and iridescent. They don't know that it was dark blue iridescent as opposed to dark black or dark green or something else though, but they know the general idea.

[Flaffy]

I think the guy's just become really busy/overwhelmed with the workload.

I understand that he is very busy, possibly overwhelmed. But we have to remember that scientific accuracy is a big selling point here, and some of the figures are still clearly inaccurate, despite all the fossil evidence.
I wouldn't mind if he set the lockdown date further back, as long as the figures are accurate and are not rushed.

[Faelrin]

He also said they were in early sculpting stage when he posted that image. Does anyone remember how the Velociraptor looked at first before it was finished (sculpt stage 1 and 2 images for example)? That may be the case with these right now, and they may turn out different when they are done. However now's the time to send him up to date references, if you can, before he does finish them. I could but I wouldn't know what to send him. I'm not too familiar with Microraptor beyond seeing images of the fossils, art of it, and the color thing. Also I thought the structures they found in the feathers were called melanosomes, or is that like the same thing? Anyways if you want I could make a post on the kickstarter, if I'm given the right information.

[terrorchicken]

I think the guy's just become really busy/overwhelmed with the workload.

all these artist's depictions of microraptors are blackish blue, how do they know it was that color?

How can you not be aware of that?!  
It is because paleontologist examined the feathers preserved in the fossils with a microscope and they founded the(I don't know how it´s called) thing/gene/pigment that gives feather it´s colors preserved, after comparing them to those of modern bird they found that iridescent blue must have been the colors of Microraptor´s feathers.

Edit: Melanin that´s it, thanks Dinoguy!

nope I didnt know. Im not as up to date with paleontological discoveries as many other here might be.  If i had more time Id probably spend more time in the paleontology news section here browsing.
also i think the oldest dinosaur reference book I have dates to the early 2000s so...

anyway its cool that they can find out information like that from such an old fossil.

[Sim]

I've commented on the Kickstarter letting David know about the outdated inaccurate Microraptor reconstructions and with some other info such as the correct shape of Microraptor's tail fan: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/creativebeast/beasts-of-the-mesozoic-raptor-series-action-figure/comments?cursor=14432061#comment-14432060

[Faelrin]

I do hope he uses them, at the very least in the tail's case. I just like how cool it looks with the feather fan and the two long feathers. Also a little unrelated, but is it just me, or is anyone else reminded of Toothless (from HTTYD) when looking at Microraptor? The more I look at that one picture the more I realize they do have a similar general shape, maybe even the color to a degree. Anyways I'm looking forward to seeing the art for Microraptor and the forest pack, and I hope it turns out better then the others have fared, in regards to the accuracy at least, and seeing the finished figure of it to boot. Will this also be the first Microraptor figure with the right color scheme, or have there been others before with it?

[Nanuqsaurus]

This might sound strange, but does anyone else dislike having juvenile/hatchling figures of dinosaurs, but no adult ones? Troodon is one of my favorite dinosaurs, but I'm kinda disappointed there's only going to be a juvenile. Maybe it's just my strange habit, but I'd never buy a figure of a young dinosaur if there isn't an adult version of it. For some reason it just looks so sad to have a baby dinosaur without a parent in my collection!

[Sim]

I think this will be the first Microraptor figure with the right colour scheme actually.  If David gives it an accurate tail fan, I think it will also be the first Microraptor figure to have that!

This might sound strange, but does anyone else dislike having juvenile/hatchling figures of dinosaurs, but no adult ones? Troodon is one of my favorite dinosaurs, but I'm kinda disappointed there's only going to be a juvenile. Maybe it's just my strange habit, but I'd never buy a figure of a young dinosaur if there isn't an adult version of it. For some reason it just looks so sad to have a baby dinosaur without a parent in my collection!

I tend to be not very interested in juvenile/baby figures.  I agree with you in that I tend to dislike having a juvenile/baby of a species without an adult.  Maybe in some cases, like with this Troodon, the juvenile with no adult can be seen as belonging to a species where parental care would not be given at that point in development?

[Dinoguy2]

I think this will be the first Microraptor figure with the right colour scheme actually.  If David gives it an accurate tail fan, I think it will also be the first Microraptor figure to have that!

This might sound strange, but does anyone else dislike having juvenile/hatchling figures of dinosaurs, but no adult ones? Troodon is one of my favorite dinosaurs, but I'm kinda disappointed there's only going to be a juvenile. Maybe it's just my strange habit, but I'd never buy a figure of a young dinosaur if there isn't an adult version of it. For some reason it just looks so sad to have a baby dinosaur without a parent in my collection!

I tend to be not very interested in juvenile/baby figures.  I agree with you in that I tend to dislike having a juvenile/baby of a species without an adult.  Maybe in some cases, like with this Troodon, the juvenile with no adult can be seen as belonging to a species where parental care would not be given at that point in development?

Regarding the tail fan, I believe there are specimens that fairly clearly show a larger broader type tail without evidence of the paired streamers. These might all be the M. gui/Cryptovolans morphotype and could be evidence of species, ontogenetic, or sex differences.

Rdit: Nevermind, looks like even the gui type has a small fan. I guess those outdated images are pretty ingrained in my mind too!

[Sim]

Regarding the tail fan, I believe there are specimens that fairly clearly show a larger broader type tail without evidence of the paired streamers. These might all be the M. gui/Cryptovolans morphotype and could be evidence of species, ontogenetic, or sex differences.

Rdit: Nevermind, looks like even the gui type has a small fan. I guess those outdated images are pretty ingrained in my mind too!

Yeah, I don't know of any Microraptor specimens that show the larger type of tail fan that's characteristic of outdated Microraptor reconstructions.  In all the Microraptor specimens I've seen that preserve it, the tail fan seems to be the same type.

This blog post http://mostlyopenocean.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/colour-of-dinosaurs.html which is one of the things I included in my comment to David, mentions that in the Microraptor colour paper,

The authors didn't stop there. The specimen that they had was newly unearthed and provided some interesting additional details about the shape of the tail. It had previously been thought that the tail was quite broad and assisted in flight. But, the new specimen and a re-examination of other specimens, suggested that the tail of Microraptor had two long feathers, or streamers, in the midline right at the back of the tail fan. It also suggested that the tail fan was narrower than previous interpretations.

That blog post also includes a photo comparison that shows the tails of earlier Microraptor specimens, one of which I believe is the Microraptor gui holotype, also have the two longer tail feathers.  Those two longer tail feathers aren't as obvious in those earlier specimens because it appears the fossils cut off before the streamers end.

This is another Microraptor specimen that appears to have that same small tail fan with the two streamers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microraptor#/media/File:Shandong_Microraptor.jpg

[Faelrin]

Normally I'm not interested in baby or juvenile animals without matching adults, thorough I partly like it as a representative of the species. I have been wondering though, is it contemporaneous with Dromaeosaurus? I've been wanting to do more research about what lived alongside it, for when the time comes, to get species in the ceratopsian line and any other species from possible future lines (tyrannosaurids, hadrosaurids, etc) to have an assortment from its ecosystem, and I'm not sure if wikipedia helps in that regard. I've also found a site called fossilworks, but I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Edit: Come to think of it, would there have been ferns common place in Dromaeosaurus' environment? I was wondering if I should ask and see if its possible to have a fern cluster go with the mountain pack (as an additional accessory).

[Flaffy]

New Kickstarter Update, more angles of the raptors.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/creativebeast/beasts-of-the-mesozoic-raptor-series-action-figure/posts/1684395
Those short tibias...

[Flaffy]

Does the BotM zhenyuanlong really have a super-short tibia compared to the actual fossil?
This angle of the BotM zhenyuanlong make the tibia seem longer than the previous images.
The secondaries look awkwardly short still.
Leg and wing stretched out.

[Flaffy]

New package art for microraptor.