HAOLONGGOOD - 2025 Hopes and Dreams

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

I heavily disagree. Of the "main" ornithischian groups that can reasonably be made 1:35 HLG has made the least ornithopods by far. 9 thyreophorans, 10 Ceratopsians, 4 Ornithopods.

[thomasw100]

Theropods in terms of diversity are equivalent to Ornithischians as a group, not to specific ornithischian groups such as hadrosaurids.  Hadrosaurids are actually one of the best-represented groups by Haolonggood.  For comparison, below are the main non-bird dinosaur types with the species Haolonggood has made from each.

Basal Theropoda: (1) Dilophosaurus
Ceratosauria: (2) Carnotaurus, Majungasaurus
Megalosauroidea: (2) Spinosaurus, Baryonyx
Allosauroidea: (2) Carcharodontosaurus, Allosaurus
Tyrannosauroidea: (2) Tyrannosaurus, Daspletosaurus
Compsognathidae: (0)
Ornithomimosauria: (0)
Alvarezsauroidea: (0)
Therizinosauria: (1) Therizinosaurus
Oviraptorosauria: (0)
Dromaeosauridae: (0)
Troodontidae: (0)
Other Theropoda: (1) Megaraptor

Basal Ornithischia: (0)
Thescelosauridae: (0)
Basal Ornithopoda: (0)
Basal Ankylopollexia: (1) Ouranosaurus
Hadrosauridae: (3) Tlatolophus, Edmontosaurus, Maiasaura
Basal Ceratopsia: (0)
Centrosaurinae: (5) Nasutoceratops, Pachyrhinosaurus, Sinoceratops, Diabloceratops, Xenoceratops
Chasmosaurinae: (5) Pentaceratops, Kosmoceratops, Chasmosaurus, Triceratops, Utahceratops
Pachycephalosauria: (0)
Basal Thyreophora: (0)
Stegosauria: (4) Wuerhosaurus, Dacentrurus, Stegosaurus, Huayangosaurus
Ankylosauridae: (3) Tianzhenosaurus, Euoplocephalus, Saichania
Nodosauridae: (2) Edmontonia, Gastonia

Basal Sauropodomorpha: (0)
Basal Sauropoda: (1) Mamenchisaurus
Diplodocoidea: (3) Dicraeosaurus, Apatosaurus, Amargasaurus
Macronaria: (3) Ampelosaurus, Alamosaurus, Argentinosaurus

Looking at the lists above, ceratopsids are overrepresented compared to other groups, but I don't mind that...  Meanwhile, feathered dinosaurs are underrepresented...

The Camarasaurus released in early August should be added to the Macronaria. And hopefully soon the Brachiosaurus / Giraffatitan can be added as well. Maybe we get this as a Christmas or News Year present from Haolonggood.

I agree that feathered dinosaurs are underrepresented, but this is equally the case for PNSO. I would think this is because many feathered dinosaurs are rather small and then sculpting feathers is much more time consuming than sculpting scales. So the development costs are fairly high compared to some other dinosaur figures I would think.

[Sim]

I heavily disagree. Of the "main" ornithischian groups that can reasonably be made 1:35 HLG has made the least ornithopods by far. 9 thyreophorans, 10 Ceratopsians, 4 Ornithopods.

That's true, but at the same time those groups are not of closely related animals.  Stegosaurus is not closely related to Ankylosaurus as one example.  Haolonggood has made three hadrosaurids but only two nodosaurids.  Which may be appropriate as there are much more hadrosaurids than nodosaurids.  The point I was trying to make is that theropods are underrepresented by Haolonggood compared to ornithischians.
I think it's interesting to see how Haolonggood has represented the different dinosaur groups.  Below I've included the list of dinosaur groups again.  I've added the Haolonggood Camarasaurus (thanks for reminding me of it T @thomasw100!) and included Archaeopterygidae as on further reflection I don't think they are birds, they look more like non-avian dinosaurs than taxa considered birds.  The colour coding is blue for groups Haolonggood has represented that have more species they could do, green is for groups Haolonggood hasn't represented that have species they could do, red is for groups with no members that would be big enough for Haolonggood to make (in my opinion) and orange is for groups Haolonggood has represented but which have no other adequate members for Haolonggood to make in 1:35 scale (in my opinion again).

Basal Theropoda: (1) Dilophosaurus
Ceratosauria: (2) Carnotaurus, Majungasaurus
Megalosauroidea: (2) Spinosaurus, Baryonyx
Allosauroidea: (2) Carcharodontosaurus, Allosaurus
Tyrannosauroidea: (2) Tyrannosaurus, Daspletosaurus
Compsognathidae: (0)
Ornithomimosauria: (0)
Alvarezsauroidea: (0)
Therizinosauria: (1) Therizinosaurus
Oviraptorosauria: (0)
Dromaeosauridae: (0)
Troodontidae: (0)
Archaeopterygidae: (0)
Other Theropoda: (1) Megaraptor

Basal Ornithischia: (0)
Thescelosauridae: (0)
Basal Ornithopoda: (0)
Basal Ankylopollexia: (1) Ouranosaurus
Hadrosauridae: (3) Tlatolophus, Edmontosaurus, Maiasaura
Basal Ceratopsia: (0)
Centrosaurinae: (5) Nasutoceratops, Pachyrhinosaurus, Sinoceratops, Diabloceratops, Xenoceratops
Chasmosaurinae: (5) Pentaceratops, Kosmoceratops, Chasmosaurus, Triceratops, Utahceratops
Pachycephalosauria: (0)
Basal Thyreophora: (0)
Stegosauria: (4) Wuerhosaurus, Dacentrurus, Stegosaurus, Huayangosaurus
Ankylosauridae: (3) Tianzhenosaurus, Euoplocephalus, Saichania
Nodosauridae: (2) Edmontonia, Gastonia

Basal Sauropodomorpha: (0)
Basal Sauropoda: (1) Mamenchisaurus
Diplodocoidea: (3) Dicraeosaurus, Apatosaurus, Amargasaurus
Macronaria: (4) Ampelosaurus, Alamosaurus, Camarasaurus, Argentinosaurus

Some thoughts:
1. I'd very much like a megalosaurid from Haolonggood!
2. For Ornithomimosauria I think the only species large enough for Haolonggood are Gallimimus and Deinocheirus.  These aren't in much demand due to PNSO's excellent Deinocheirus and the upcoming CollectA Gallimimus.  So I'm not sure we'll see an ornithomimosaur from Haolonggood soon...
3. Oviraptorosauria only has Gigantoraptor as large enough.
4. Haolonggood should make dromaeosaurids in my opinion.
5. Thescelosauridae only has Thescelosaurus as large enough.  A Thescelosaurus would be a unique figure!
6. Basal Ornithopoda only has Muttaburrasaurus as large enough.
7. Basal Ceratopsia only has Udanoceratops as large enough.
8. Pachycephalosauria only has, you guessed it, Pachycephalosaurus as large enough.
9. Haolonggood should also make a basal sauropodomorph I think.  Where's Plateosaurus, Haolonggood!?

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

I mean the way I see it Haolonggood has pretty clearly established that they're focused on ornithischians and sauropods. Which have been underrepresented for a while so ultimately a good thing. I also disagree with some of your choices for how to split up clades but that's neither here nor there.

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

For example you've split up chasmosaurinae and centrosaurinae but imo if those are to be included then so too should lambeosaurinae and saurolophinae

[Sim]

Haolonggood focusing on ornithischians and sauropods only happened because their post-Carcharodontosaurus theropods weren't received very well generally, I think.  Their Majungasaurus is of the high standard we expect from Haolonggood, so I wouldn't be surprised if theropods get equal focus from them now.  I'm unsure why basal sauropodomorphs haven't been represented by them yet.  As for how to split clades, I tried doing it in a way that best represents shared features and a similar amount of diversity in each group...  I haven't split Hadrosauridae into Lambeosaurinae and Saurolophinae because there are basal hadrosaurids like Aquilarhinus and Hadrosaurus that don't belong in either subgroup.  Plus, Centrosaurinae and Chasmosaurinae combined have more taxa than Hadrosauridae has, and the difference between the two hadrosaurid subgroups isn't as significant I think...

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

Again this is where I strongly disagree, I'd argue the differences are bigger between saurolophines and lambeosaurines. They have very different skull shapes, least of which that lambeosaurines have crests and saurolophines don't. (A few like Saurolophus do but they're the exception and evolved completely separate from lambeosaur crests.) Meanwhile the biggest difference I can think of between chasmosaurus and centrosaurs are the relative lengths of the orbital and nasal horns, and even that isn't always the case. The issue of more basal species could be fixed by simply including them in basal ankylopolexia.

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

Actually I'm pretty sure the only crested saurolophines are Saurolophus and Augustynolophus, three species in total.

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

Diversity is also fairly subjective, if you focus on postcrania then macronaria is far more diverse than ceratopsidae and hadrosauridae

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

I would split things up as:

Theropods:
Basal theropods
Ceratosaurs
Megalosauroidea
Allosauroidea
Basal coelurosaurs
Tyrannosauroidea
Maniraptora

Ornithischians:
Basal ornithischians
Basal thyreophorans
Stegosaurs
Ankylosaurs
Nodosaurs
Basal neornithischians
Pachycephalosauria
Chasmosaurinae
Centrosaurinae
Basal ornithopoda
Saurolophinae
Lambeosaurinae

Sauropods:
Basal sauropodomorpha
Basal sauropoda
Diplodocoidea
Basal macronaria
Titanosauria

[Sim]

Thanks for your thoughts!  I will give it more thought tomorrow.  For now I will say I strongly disagree with putting all maniraptorans in one group.  As one example for why I feel this way, Dromaeosauridae and Oviraptorosauria each have more members than other groups such as Megalosauroidea, and besides both groups being feathered, literally every part of their skeleton was different.  For example oviraptorosaurs had birdlike skulls while dromaeosaurids had reptilian ones, oviraptorosaur feet were adapted for running while dromaeosaurid ones were raptorial, the tails of oviraptorosaurs were short and muscular, retaining the reptilian trait of tail-powered locomotion, while dromaeosaurid tails were long, stiffened and separated from their legs like in birds.  The main groups of Maniraptora are all very different to each other in fact, so I'm against keeping them all under one group when identifying the main dinosaur groups.  They differ from each other more than megalosauroids, tyrannosauroids and allosauroids differ from each other.

My understanding is centrosaurines and chasmosaurines differ from each other with regards to their snout length, centrosaurines being generalist feeders while chasmosaurines were selective feeders.

[Faelrin]

I agree with Sim on the Maniraptora thing. That said I wish we got more oviraptorosaur figures. Ornithomimosaurs have had a few wins recently, so I hope this group gets more attention again (aside from Safari's two now retired ones).

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

Yeah looking at it again you're right about Maniraptora.
How about
Basal maniraptoromorpha
Ornithomimisauria
Therizinosauria
Oviraptorosauria
Paraves

[Halichoeres]

Meanwhile non-dinosaurs (i.e., the vast majority of prehistoric life) pretty much don't exist as far as they're concerned.

[Sim]

I've considered the details presented with regards to how to split dinosaur groups and I think what I've come up with currently is the best way to do it as it achieves the right balance.  The one group I'm least confident about though is Macronaria.  Splitting it into basal Macronaria and Titanosauria could be justified I think.  But in the absence of further evidence I think I'll keep it as is for now.

If troodontids, dromaeosaurids and archaeopterygids were lumped into one group, it would need to be basal Paraves, as otherwise it would include all bird species and to say there are a ton of them is an understatement!

[Concavenator]

I remembered @Duna 's suggestion for a Diplodocus, and after seeing pics of Haolonggood's sauropods together with other figures, I'm starting to warm up to the idea of getting figures of sauropods in 1:35 scale, just so they're in scale with other non-sauropod figures.

On that front, I'd be open to a Haolonggood Diplodocus carnegii. Hopefully they give one of the variants that ginger/yellowish coloration, based on that Diplodocus sp. skin sample that was discussed on an abstract for the 2023 SVP.

Not that I'm in a hurry, I have Eofauna's in the meantime, which is not only gorgeous, but is arguably my favorite figure in my entire collection. But if Haolonggood releases a nice yellowish Diplodocus carnegii in 1:35 scale, I'd probably replace Eofauna's with it, on a basis of scale.

I think I now understand why people may want additional figures of a species already well-represented in figure form. But I still think that species known from good fossil remains and without good/satisfactory figure representation should take priority. And so, I think Barosaurus should have priority over Diplodocus, even if I'm personally not interested in getting one. That said, Haolonggood appears to really love making these huge sauropods, so I think they could release both diplodocines and both of them would be good choices.

EDIT: I'm not interested in Rebor's Diplodocus.

[Paleo Flo]

I would suggest something completely different: Gerrothorax, Mastodonsaurus, Tiktaalik, Batrachotomus and a 1:1 Archaeopteryx!

[thomasw100]

I remembered @Duna 's suggestion for a Diplodocus, and after seeing pics of Haolonggood's sauropods together with other figures, I'm starting to warm up to the idea of getting figures of sauropods in 1:35 scale, just so they're in scale with other non-sauropod figures.

On that front, I'd be open to a Haolonggood Diplodocus carnegii. Hopefully they give one of the variants that ginger/yellowish coloration, based on that Diplodocus sp. skin sample that was discussed on an abstract for the 2023 SVP.

Not that I'm in a hurry, I have Eofauna's in the meantime, which is not only gorgeous, but is arguably my favorite figure in my entire collection. But if Haolonggood releases a nice yellowish Diplodocus carnegii in 1:35 scale, I'd probably replace Eofauna's with it, on a basis of scale.

I think I now understand why people may want additional figures of a species already well-represented in figure form. But I still think that species known from good fossil remains and without good/satisfactory figure representation should take priority. And so, I think Barosaurus should have priority over Diplodocus, even if I'm personally not interested in getting one. That said, Haolonggood appears to really love making these huge sauropods, so I think they could release both diplodocines and both of them would be good choices.

EDIT: I'm not interested in Rebor's Diplodocus.

Now you dared to advocate a Diplodocus from Haolonggood, so the wrath of the Sim will come over you.

[Halichoeres]

I would suggest something completely different: Gerrothorax, Mastodonsaurus, Tiktaalik, Batrachotomus and a 1:1 Archaeopteryx!

I would buy those, although I might personally prefer Archaeopteryx at 1:2. If they ever start doing things larger than 1:35, or things that aren't dinosaurs, watch out!