Gryphon Art- update 4/9

[Gryphoceratops]

Thanks man.  Yeah I don't really see unenlagia being a purely arboreal animal but I don't see anything wrong with imagining they may have ventured up there for a mating ritual or something once in a while right?     Like you said leopards do it as do bears which are even heavier!

I can't understand why you would compare a dinosaur which you consider related to birds, to a goat, leopard or bear!  Kenneth Carpenter and Phil Senter said it was unable to life its forelimbs above its back.  Its wings are too short to support it and flying Pterosaurs with the same wing span weighed much less.  There also is no fossil evidence of feathers and if it did have feathers they were probably more like an Ostrich. Also some scientist think it is actually a small Megaraptor.

What in that paragraph has anything to do with what we are talking about? 

1) Yes it couldn't lift its arms up like a bird.  Therefore it couldn't climb???  No.
2) Nobody said anything about flying.
3) There is fossil evidence of feathering on close relatives like Velociraptor.  That's enough scientific evidence to portray unenlagia the same way until further evidence is found. 
4) Why would they be ostrich-like?  Other dromaeosaurs show more advanced feathers.  Again, its most scientific to portray this animal like that
5)Think its a small megaraptor?  Thats been disproved.  The megaraptor claw is almost identical in shape to a spinosaur claw.  Unenlagia was clearly not that kind of an animal looking at the rest of its known anatomy.
6) Sharp claws doesn't mean it was necessarily a climber....yeah but they sure help if it was.  Its an animal thats been extinct for over 80 million years.  We are allowed to speculate within reason. 

I find it funny how the last time you showed up on my art thread was to vocalize your apparent mortal fear for any birdlike dinosaur doing anything remotely birdlike.  Do we really need to debate about this all over again?  Cant you just go back to the first time it happened on the old thread and read that again instead?

1.  So you agree it couldn't lift its wings up like a bird.  So it couldn't flap like a bird.
2.  If I remember correctly back in version one you claimed it could fly like a turkey.
3.  The fossil evidence for Velociraptor just shows near microscopic knobs on the arms much smaller then a turkey vulture.  It could have had feathers of some sort.
4.  Only a few deinonychosaurians possessed asymmetrically veined wing feathers, most had symemetrical or non-veined feathers.
5.  I agree its no longer considered valid.
6.  Allosaurus has sharp claws also.

I reread part of the old thread and I remember you said Unengalia was 3 feet long, and I said based on countless articles that it was the size of an ostrich which was too big.  Both of us were incorrect on some things in my opinion.
Anyway Dr. Steve Salisbury (Vertebrate Palaeoontology and Biomechanics Lab at the University of Queensland found that "Among living birds, the curvature and length of the claw closely correlates with climbing ability, only a few can use their claw to cling to and climb up trees."  Anatomist at the University of Queensland found that the curvature and length in the majority of deinonychosaurians resembled that found in ground foraging birds such as pigeons and cockatoos.  "They can't cling to or climb trees.  Therefore the same was probably true for their dinosaurian forebearers" says Salisbury.  The only reason they would adapt climbing ability is if they foraged in trees.  Anyway you can speculate anything you want , but scientific consensus is they were unable to actually climb trees.

*facepalm*

1) Again what does flapping have to do with climbing?  (yes I know some modern birds do it to get up trees but they don't have front claws!)
2) Yeah I defended it two years ago when that was still a theory.  I'm allowed to change my beliefs as new things are discovered no?
3) Who cares how small they were?  They were there.
4) Which true dromaeosaur shows actual fossil evidence of having just primitive feathers?  (Either way what does this have to do with the debate at hand?)
5) If you are aware then why even bring it up?
6) please don't even...just no.  I shouldn't have to explain why that's a silly point to try and bring up.

Well did you actually read or did you "remember"?  Because I said Unenlagia was 3 feet long without the tail (with the tail it was estimated at around 6-7 feet).  I was and still am correct and you were wrong. 

The Salisbury thing...you said he did his study with living birds?  As in birds that don't have three sharp claws on their front limbs (probably could have helped with climbing perhaps maybe i dunno?  I'm not saying they def climb but its not out of the question.

So...you cherry picked out a few sentences from one source you found on the internet and therefore its the general consensus?  Show me a link to the entire paper please.  He said the only reason a nonavian dinosaur would ever go into a tree is for food... if that's REALLY the case he makes then I have to disagree with him (again I want to see the whole paper maybe you took that quote out of context).  But I can with confidence tell anyone (science degree or not) animals evolve for multitudes of reasons not just for food (predator avoidance, environmental changes, mating...the list goes on) and who knows!?!?  Maybe animals like Unenlagia were finding something good to eat in trees?

[Gryphoceratops]

And now for something different.  Needed to get this mammal done for the njblog.  Paraceratherium. 

[Meso-Cenozoic]

Hey, I haven't seen you do a whole lot of mammals. He looks really nice!

I know wayyyyy back on the old board we were discussing leg length on this guy. And, there were arguments on both sides. To me, this guy's legs look just a bit short. But, you did make him to be quite a healthy animal. So maybe it's just the illusion the heavy hanging underside is giving.

[Himmapaan]

That is just gorgeous, Chris.

[Gryphoceratops]

Thanks guys. 

Chuck, I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on this animal lol.  I just looked at images of skeletons and modern rhinos and did my best haha.  Hopefully he is passable. 

[Gryphoceratops]

And here are some not dead Therizinosaurus.  Banged this one out the other night again for the blog. 

[Yutyrannus]

And here are some not dead Therizinosaurus.  Banged this one out the other night again for the blog. 

Awesome! I don't think this one needs have more feathers. I think you should draw therizinosaurs for the speculative dinosaur project. If you are interested you can post them in my new thread about it in Books, film, and other media.

[Meso-Cenozoic]

Thanks guys. 

Chuck, I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on this animal lol.  I just looked at images of skeletons and modern rhinos and did my best haha.  Hopefully he is passable.

That's OK. I really know crap about prehistoric mammals' dimensions. LOL! Now and then, I just try to think of something different to say rather than my usual, "Very Cool!" or "That's Awesome!!" LOL!!
I think I was remembering back to when Malcolm was making his Indricotherium, and people were debating about its leg length. I think the outcome was that beefy, longer legs were good. But heck, I might even be a little off with my memory of those details, lol. No matter. Still a cool drawing IMHO!

And I really like those Theris, especially those red, turkey-like waddles on the male! Nice additions! And the contrasting yellow face really makes him stand out too.

[ZoPteryx]

Great work on those Therizinosaurs!  I really like the sexual dimorphism.

[Bokisaurus]

Had this one done for a while forgot to share it on here.  Tarbosaurus. 

Very nice, really fun to follow your art and see the changes in style and how you handle watercolor. I like this one a lot

[Gryphoceratops]

New one.  Elasmosaurus.

[GrownNerd]

I like your watercolors a lot. Very fluid style.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I am asking this not as a critique but as a bit of want to know for my own sake....In your painting the therizinosaurs, seem to have pronated hands. Do we accept that as the normal hand posture for these animals? Or rather the one with the yellow comb seems to have fully pronated his hands, whereas the other, I am unsure how to describle the posture they are being held in. Again, I want to state that I myself do NOT know and am not criticizing but rather seeking clarity. They are  amazing paintings Gryph and thanks for sharing.

[Gryphoceratops]

Thanks for the compliments.

They are not pronated.  I don't know maybe it could look like that because his arms arent back like the female's or perhaps because his upper arm bones could be being held slightly lifted giving it that appearance.  Think about it, if he is being viewed from the side like he is, if the hands were pronated you wouldn't be seeing all three fingers.  They would rather be overlapping each other right?

[Himmapaan]

Perhaps it's the curvature of the claws which seems to be giving that impression?

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I am sure it is just a trick caused by perspective or perhaps how we each see things from a slightly different angle. What I see, is the hand I would call his right, palm down. If it were non pronated, or neutral , I should be seeing the palm from that hand facing towards my view. The left hand then, appears also oriented downward, making the three claws side by side, rather than top to bottom if that makes sense?
  As Himmapaan made sure to demonstrate for me, the palms would not be facing up nor down, in a neutral posture, but rather facing one another
That being said, please understand I am NOT an artist and not a good critique whatsoever. I take your word for it if you say the posture is neutral.

[Gryphoceratops]

Fingers can move too.  I'll put up a sketch from a different perspective when I get the chance.

[Gryphoceratops]

In the meantime here is a sketch/painting of Dimetrodon.  I needed it for a powerpoint I was making at work so whipped it together real quick. 



And I have begun working on the Eotyrannus one a bit more. 

[ZoPteryx]

Great work on both of those!

[Gryphoceratops]

A bit more work on it.  They hypsilophodon is almost done.  Started the scales on the sauropod.