Controversial opinions on dinosaur toys

[Dinoguy2]

Don't know if this count for this thread, but I think in 10-15 years, all current azhdarchid reconstructions will be looked at like the mid-20th century mash-up ankylosaurs based on Ankylo-euoplo-tonia-canthus. So far all azhdarchid reconstructions have been chimeras of various species plus inappropriately scaled-up small species. Mark Witton, John Conway etc. seem to have upcoming papers on these differences in look and proportions but nothing actually published yet.

[Concavenator]

(Likely) unpopular opinions of mine... I think people give CollectA a bit too much credit when they say they produce the most obscure species and that they're the most innovative company out of them all. Here's why: what CollectA mostly do is release figures of exciting new discoveries in record time, and I certainly find that interesting, but I don't think they should be praised so much because they release "very obscure" or "exotic" species. Almost always, the species they choose, despite being recently discovered, have appeared quite a bit on the media (Bajadasaurus, Borealopelta, Deinocheirus, Lythronax...) so I wouldn't exactly define them as "obscure" species. Nothing wrong with that, of course. To further prove my point, there are dinosaurs, like those I mentioned, or others like Concavenator, Yutyrannus, Nasutoceratops that yes, have been recently described but are fairly known nonetheless. More or less people will remember them, but they have gotten their attention thanks to the media. Announcing these discoveries on public media makes the non-specialised person more familiar with dinosaurs and paleontology, but what about those dinosaurs that aren't famous (T.rex, Triceratops, Stegosaurus...) and don't appear on the media (or aren't given a lot of attention)? Those are the species I would define as "obscure". In that aspect, I would say the company that produces the most obscure species is Vitae, even above CollectA. Vitae has made a model of a therizinosaurid that doesn't even have an official name yet (similar to Eofauna's Triceratops sp). Or Zhejiangosaurus, Chilantaisaurus... I wouldn't quite see CollectA release one of those. Even Chilesaurus, which Papo surprisingly released last year, received quite a bit of attention back in 2015 when it was announced. Would they have released one if that species had been announced 80 years before, or rather, if it hadn't been announced so widely when it was described? I don't think so.

Innovation wise, I wouldn't say CollectA are by far the most innovative company. At least not any longer. They are innovative indeed, but from my perspective, much of what is intended to be innovative from them isn't really very interesting. Producing figures of dinosaur corpses, for instance, isn't to my appeal, as innovative as it may be. Other ideas, such as the resting dinosaur experiment with the Daspletosaurus or the dinosaur families are more interesting, but they have long abandoned those. They don't really do anything like that again, and now that the quality of their products has improved that much, at least it would be interesting to see what they could do with an idea like that again. I think Eofauna is now the most innovative / creative company. Atlasaurus is what I would call a true obscure species. A Triceratops that not only isn't based on T.horridus or T.prorsus, but on a yet undescribed species is very interesting. And their upcoming Diplodocus, despite being a very famous dinosaur, will be unique as it will be the first figure ever to be modelled after a specific reconstruction on a scientific paper. Not only that, but it may also have a completely neutral pose, which is something you don't see very often.

[dyno77]

yea the neutral poses are sure better than unrealistic, unnatural poses that some companies such as papo seem to favor.
Also eofauna does a lot of research on each figure,unlike papo and schleich. They have so much data on mammoths that i really hope they release more figures of them soon. collecta and safari do research on there dinosaurs as well ,but as for the rest of the companies i really doubt that they look beyond a single popular source image and thats about it..

Yet again iv noticed that papo gets away with alot of criticism ,probably because of the high detail each figure has for the most part..but in the last few years they have gotten lazy...
From what iv read online they chose not to release any dinosaurs because of the backlash from last years giganotosaurus. Yea iv heard the other excuse which is fine and well..but collecta and others are releasing just as many dinosaurs this year ,so why should papo be excused..? Its not on and im not mad or anything just pointing out some interesting reports and my take on them as a long time collector...get that the other companies arent releasing exactly the same number of figures as last year but its hardly noticeable when they are so many other companies releasing so many great figures.

[Halichoeres]

@Concavenator I recently got caught up on the PNSO 2021 thread and noticed your comment there, but rather than derail that conversation I thought I'd try to explain my position here.

I recently had a similar conversation in the "Bandai new for 2021" thread, and I feel specifically summoned because you essentially quoted my profile. As I said there, I don't find any organism boring or objectionable in its own right, but I have grown to resent certain theropods because of their absolute dominance in paleo-media and the toy market in particular. Just to demonstrate, below are total announced 2021 figure releases for the companies* that generally make some kind of effort at representing extinct animals as toys, which is to say I've excluded 1) figures based explicitly based on pop-culture properties, 2) game pieces, and 3) model kits. I've also excluded simple paint variants. All of the included clades have an origin about as old as or older than theropods and in most cases have living representatives. Most are more diverse than theropods, and some are more diverse by orders of magnitude (actinopterygians, mollusks, arthropods). Entire phyla and indeed kingdoms/supergroups are completely absent.

Theropoda (22)
Sauropodomorpha (5)
Ornithischia (27, but 15 are from the BotM ceratopsian line)
Pterosauria (4)
Pseudosuchia (2)
Testudines (1)
Actinopterygii (1)
Lepidosauria (1)
Mammalia (3)
Dipnoi (1)
Teleostei (1)
Selachii (1)
Holocephali (1)
all primitive fish lineages (1)
Mollusca (2)
Arthropoda (1)

Remember that I've excluded all the Mattel and Nanmu and other JP/JW merch, which would inflate the imbalance in favor of theropods even further with the endless rehashes of raptors and rexies and whatever else. Anyway, in this comparison, both theropods and ornithischians are looking pretty good, although both have some rather neglected sub-clades (alvarezsaurs, heterodontosaurs, etc.). People are fond of saying that hadrosaurs are underrepresented, but these days they're quite well-represented relative to their geological duration and diversity. That's also true for most larger theropods and for ceratopsids. But the diversity available in hadrosaurs and ceratopsians is really pretty recent, whereas the absolute dominance of theropods is perennial. Although theropods obviously aren't my favorites, I don't begrudge their being anyone else's. But maybe you can understand why it's frustrating for collectors who prefer a little more variety to see reveals that consist of 50% or more theropods--in my ideal world, reveals wouldn't even be 50% dinosaurs sensu stricto. So my profile quote doesn't mean I think theropods are bad, only that there's more in prehistory than theropods alone and I'd like the market to reflect that a bit more. That's it.

*

Spoiler

CollectA
Creative Beast
Dino Hazard
EoFauna
Favorite
GR Toys
Mojo
Papo
PNSO
Qualia
Rebor, but not movie-based ones
Safari
Schleich
Takara Tomy, but not the JW items
Wild Past

[close]

[Concavenator]

@Halichoeres Thank you for the collected information! First, I would like to clarify that what I said in my previous post wasn't specifically aimed at you, rather I was expressing an opinion based on an accumulation of a certain type of comment I have seen repeated on the forum as of late. That quote of yours came to my mind, but it's far from being the only comment of this kind.

You make good points, I actually agree with pretty much everything you have said, as it's true.
From the data you show, it can be seen that dinosaurs have an absolute dominance, which is to be expected. I'm personally glad for this, as they're basically my collecting goal (non-dinosaurs are scarce in my collection), although I perfectly understand that collectors who are not exclusively focused on dinosaurs may find their dominance somehow frustrating.

Among dinosaurs, a whole clade lacks a serious effort of a scientifically correct reconstruction of at least a single (!!) representative of it, namely, Herrerasauria (that is, following the proposed new phylogeny for dinosaurs by Baron et al. (2017). It's surprising how sauropodomorphs are noticeably scarcer than both ornithischians and theropods, but of course, the trend is still saying that hadrosaurids are under represented. While it is certain that 15 of those ornithischians are BotM ceratopsians, and you could take that as casual, it is still true that the choice for the line were ceratopsians (ornithischians), instead of another family of theropods. And when it comes to theropods,  their dominance is quite relative. If you exclude, out of all the theropod releases from every year, all the figures belonging to the genera Tyrannosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Spinosaurus, Velociraptor and perhaps Carnotaurus, how many models would remain? Among theropods, only a few genera get frequently made into figures, and the families are almost always the same, with some families having no representation (it's not, as some people say, under represented, they're simply not represented, i.e., scansoriopterygids, alvarezsaurids, troodontids). In my case, theropods are not only my favorite dinosaurs but also my favorite prehistoric creatures. I generally like to buy figures of genera I don't have, but since I'm a slow collector and since I favor quality over quantity, if an excellent and accurate model is released of a popular genus I already have and surpasses the best (and usually only as I don't tend to have several figures of the same genus) available version in my collection, at least I will consider it, without automatically complaining about the choice of species.

You say "theropods aren't bad", well, I don't hate any dinosaur (or living being, for that matter) group either, but I may find it more or less interesting. However, and as I have already expressed, I have read many disconcerning comments regarding theropods as a whole on the forum in a constant way, which honestly bugs me as they're my favorite group  .

[Faelrin]

Very good points @Halichoeres and @Concavenator

To add to the above compsognathids, ornithomimosaurs, oviraptorosaurs, and accurate dromaeosaurids (aka not JP/JW styled ones) are all still sorely lacking (BoTM and Safari have been the best boost for dromaeosaurids so far, but that isn't much in all honesty).

According to the DTC site (assuming there are no duplicates, and there may be some canceled figures among these that probably shouldn't count) these are the top ten most produced theropods so far (not just toys from the main brands), assuming I made no mistakes and didn't forget something in the process (I searched by Theropoda, so it also depends on things being tagged correctly as such):

-Tyrannosaurus 399(!)
-Velociraptor 222 (most being JP based, Velociraptor proper is probably far less)
-Spinosaurus 127
-Allosaurus 106
-Carnotaurus 78
-Dilophosaurus 74
-Baryonyx 46
-Ceratosaurus 33
-Deinonychus 33
-Giganotosaurus 31

Ornithischians in comparison:
-Triceratops 215
-Stegosaurus 142
-Ankylosaurus 80
-Parasaurolophus 74
-Styracosaurus 69
-Pachycephalosaurus 48
-Iguanodon 38
-Protoceratops 34
-Stygimoloch 26 (some canceled, bulk are from Mattel; probably juvenile Pachycephalosaurus anyways)
-Edmontosaurus 23

I'll check sauropods next, but I expect it to be similar to the poor ornithischians in this case.

[Concavenator]

I will rectify what I said about alvarezsaurids, troodontids and scansoriopterygids not having representation. The BotM Mononykus and Stenonychosaurus, as well as PNSO's Mei and Yi exist. I was aware of those at the time of writing my previous post, so this comes as a disclaimer. With no representation I meant "fully sized" figures, not minis or accesories.

To add to the above compsognathids, ornithomimosaurs, oviraptorosaurs, and accurate dromaeosaurids (aka not JP/JW styled ones) are all still sorely lacking (BoTM and Safari have been the best boost for dromaeosaurids so far, but that isn't much in all honesty).

You're very right about compsognathids, those would also fall into the "no representation except minis" category as well, also excluding JP based versions of Compsognathus. The others you mention also have very little representation.

The situation is more complex than what it seems, in my opinion. We collectors would like to see these groups getting attention, but we also shouldn't forget that these are produced by companies that ultimately depend on sales to keep existing, in first place. This would explain the variety we currently have. But on the other hand, they haven't really tried releasing a full sized scansoriopterygid, for example. Maybe if someone ever makes a good, nicely sized figure of one, people would find it interesting to see a dinosaur looking almost like a fiction dragon! Perhaps they're being too conservative, but again, I could understand why.

Also, @Faelrin , Tyrannosaurus, Velociraptor and all those have indeed had a lot of representations, but again, how many of them are serious attempts of showing them as actual animals instead of fantasy creatures? I would dare to say there are less than 10 good and accurate Tyrannosaurus figures, and for Velociraptor it's just the Safari and the BotM ones, afaik. For example, I have been waiting for a Deinonychus figure pretty much since forever. There may be 33 figures of it, but only since Safari made one, I actually got it, since I felt this was the first one that's actually one. Of course, I'm talking from the perspective of someone who is interested only in accurate depiction, so that may explain why I feel my favorite dinosaurs are very little represented.

[Faelrin]

Yeah that's why I pointed that out about the Velociraptor. It really pales in accurate representation which is why I hope to see at least PNSO try their hand at it, despite the others (BotM, Safari Ltd, etc) being plenty good enough already. You are right in that Tyrannosaurus lacks some decent representation as well. Off hand I can think of the Battat, Carnegie, the new PNSO Wilson, and the Safari Ltd Feathered T. rex, with maybe a few others, and of course the BotM ones, which will likely be the first to have lips, and tiny sculpted scales, assuming nothing shows up during the production of them. Only the Safari Ltd, new PNSO, and upcoming BotM take into account the updated gastralia I think, with maybe the recent CollectA one, but truth be told it pales in comparison to those.

I think this is also partly why I feel the way about Acrocanthosaurus, and really want a new representation of it either from PNSO or Safari Ltd. Each and every (non miniature) figure of it has had proportion issues, etc, particularly with the arms. It also pales in representation as it is, despite being one of the more complete large theropods, with numerous specimens, with varying levels of completion.

However I would say accurate representation is still vastly different from total representation. I cannot blame @Halichoeres for being so tired of the same old, that saturate the market, particularly with how many are still outdated depictions majority of the time, even if the large factor of why that is done is because these are companies, and popular genera, including outdated depictions, obviously sell and keep the company afloat, otherwise they won't keep getting produced.

I feel like Kaiyodo, and PNSO (with their miniatures), Safari Ltd (such as their TOOBS from long ago), and CollectA, and maybe a few others, have been the most bold so far of the brands out there, with taking the risks in producing animals that aren't dinosaurs (or other popular animals such as Dimetrodon, Woolly Mammoth, Smildon, etc), and unpopular or otherwise infrequently made dinosaurs.


Also I did the thing with the sauropods now (technically top 11 because the bottom two tied), and perhaps other then the top two, or three, as expected, it really starts to drop off:

Brachiosaurus 95 (many of which were based on the more complete Giraffatitan, such as the JP Brachiosaurus)
Apatosaurus 44
Diplodocus 31
Amargasaurus 23
Brontosaurus 22
Plateosaurus 18
Camarasaurus 15
Mamenchisaurus 13
Saltasaurus 9
Agustinia 5
Ampelosaurus 5

[The Atroxious]

Obligatory post from a theropod collector: Theropods are really the only figures I collect beyond fictional characters and mythical beasts. Rarely I'll buy a figure of an animal from another clade that tickles my fancy, but not frequently enough or with enough planning to reasonably call it a collection. I don't only collect prehistoric theropods either. I collect all manner of extant and extinct theropods given that I like the aesthetics of the figure enough, but I really have little to no interest in obtaining figures from other groups.

That said, I feel like in the collector/enthusiast community, theropods aren't nearly as popular as they are outside the community. Toy lines do produce a fair number of theropods (though most of the figures produced aren't that great in my opinion) but I've more often seen people complaining about how popular theropods are than expressing pleasure over a wide selection of figures. I suppose the fact that the figures sell constitutes a certain type of popularity, yet at the same time they don't seem as universally loved as ceratopsians or sauropods.

I do agree though that some groups of prehistoric theropods are incredibly under-represented. The large carnivores get loads of figures made of them, often with only slight variations (to the point that I can't keep track of which Giganotosaurus figure is which anymore) but the plant eaters (generally speaking my personal favorites when it comes to non-avians) get Therizinosaurus, a couple of Deinocheirus, and that's it. No Elaphrosaurines, very few types of Oviraptorisaur, and forget about finding well-feathered, up-to-date Ornithomimids. Personally, I'd be buying a lot more non-avian dinosaur figures if the companies decided to release a bunch of plant eating theropods. This isn't even getting into extinct avian species! Their representation in toy lines is even worse than most other dinosaur groups. I'm insanely curious (and a little bit scared) about how a club winged ibis reconstruction would look in toy form, but I'm not holding my breath. A Pelagornis toy? In your dreams.

I just feel that theropods get dunked on a lot, even outside this forum, and are widely viewed as the lowest common denominator of dinosaur enthusiasm, but personally I feel like theropods (and the people who love them) are often misrepresented which contributes to their reputation as being the non-dinosaur person's dinosaur.

Addendum: I feel the urge to counter the aforementioned profile quote. For me at least, theropods are life. I paint them, I study them, I write about them, and my favorite media contains theropod symbolism. I eat sleep and breathe theropods about as literally as you can use that phrase. I also like deep sea fish and miscellaneous other animals, but by and large, theropods are king.

[suspsy]

This is why I keep saying that Tyrannosaurus rex is a genuine pop culture icon the same as certain superheroes or cartoon or movie characters. Look at how many Optimus Prime toys there are compared to say, Impactor or Bludgeon or Nightbeat despite the fact that those other three are really cool characters. Or look at how many Batman and Spider-Man toys there are compared to Red Tornado, Big Barda, Iron Fist, and Squirrel Girl. As much as some toy companies may want to fulfill the wishes of collectors, they're still going to always be primarily concerned with making money and keeping afloat. No other group of prehistoric animals sells as well as the theropods and no other theropod sells as well as T. rex. Not even close to it.

And that ain't ever gonna change!

[Halichoeres]

@Concavenator I'm mostly bothered by seeing the same taxa made over and over again; it just happens that most of the taxa that get that treatment happen to be theropods: spinosaurids, carcharodontosaurids, tyrannosaurids, and specific members of other families. For example, I could still get excited about a new abelisaur, but I'm just sick to death of Carnotaurus. And of course while I personally find Permian and Triassic synapsids more interesting than dinosaurs, I have no interest in a new Dimetrodon and I was irritated to see PNSO tease one. And as @Faelrin showed there are a few ornithischian and sauropod genera that get disproportionate attention, as the go-to representatives for entire clades. I also agree with you and the Atroxious that there some kinds of theropods that are pretty ignored. I'd buy a Limusaurus in a heartbeat. On the other hand, any genus that has been made three or more times in the last fivte years, I'm pretty much at satiety.

I'm sure it's perfectly true that for most companies, the primary customers are children and their guardians. That's unfortunate because children and their guardians are not very discerning (yes, I'm sure everyone here was or knows a precocious child with broad and deep knowledge of paleontology, but by and large kids--and their parents--are pretty dumb). I don't think lines aimed at collectors have the same constraint, and for that reason I am always going to agitate for the oddball taxa. I've also tried pretty hard lately to not 'dunk' on theropods; my profile quote is a lot milder than what was there before.

All that said, theropods get such disproportionate attention that to me the errors that people point out in existing figures strike me as increasingly trivial. Tarsal scutes, the relative length of a single claw, the extent of extraoral tissue, the paint scheme. For someone who is more interested in other groups, those kinds of arguments kind of sound like lottery winners complaining about the paintwork on their yachts. I agree with you that the Safari Deinonychus is the best that has been made, but I disagree that there were no good ones previously. Kabaya, Rebor, Favorite, Kaiyodo, Colorata, even Mojo, sure, they were all inaccurate in some way or another, but they are all much more accurate than the Favorite Dunkleosteus, which is more accurate than any other Dunk except the tiny Kaiyodo. Similarly, as you might have noticed in my Irritator review, the lungfish had really serious inaccuracies, even though the theropod included up-to-the-minute data on the tail. So in the end, I don't really think theropods need defending. I mean, everything's already coming up theropod. Do lottery winners care that their neighbors are envious of their luck?

Thanks for those comparisons, Faelrin. Sauropodomorphs really fall off a cliff (And for Ampelosaurus, 5 is kind of overstating it: the PNSO mini is in there twice with slightly different paint jobs, one is a model kit, and one is the obscure Sega Dinosaur King mini).

And yes, Tyrannosaurus is a pop culture icon. It was in the right place at the right time, as the biggest carnivore in the country that overwhelmingly defined pop culture in the 20th century. If there were Carcharodontosaurus fossils in Montana instead, it would have been Carcharodontosaurus. But obviously I'm not interested in prehistory from a pop culture perspective. I'm interested in comparative anatomy and paleoecology, so naturally there's going to be a limit on my appetite for Tyrannosaurus.

I just feel that theropods get dunked on a lot, even outside this forum, and are widely viewed as the lowest common denominator of dinosaur enthusiasm, but personally I feel like theropods (and the people who love them) are often misrepresented which contributes to their reputation as being the non-dinosaur person's dinosaur.

Addendum: I feel the urge to counter the aforementioned profile quote. For me at least, theropods are life. I paint them, I study them, I write about them, and my favorite media contains theropod symbolism. I eat sleep and breathe theropods about as literally as you can use that phrase. I also like deep sea fish and miscellaneous other animals, but by and large, theropods are king.

Things like Tyrannosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Allosaurus, Spinosaurus absolutely are the dinosaurs that people who aren't really that into dinosaurs latch onto. When I say theropods, I'm painting with too broad a brush, but brevity is the soul of wit. (Hence my very long reply to this thread, obviously.)

[Stegotyranno420]

I can spare Spinosaurus because it's a very Interesting animal scientifically, and it's a bug discovery, but I feel the same as you when I see a pop culture rendition

[Gothmog the Baryonyx]

The word "Theropod" seems to be used by a lot of people to only mean the big, mostly scaly theopods like the aforementioned famous ones. To the point where I saw people saying that Safari Ltd didn't release any theropods in 2018 because Anzu "doesn't count". That is a peeve of mine.

[Concavenator]

@Concavenator I'm mostly bothered by seeing the same taxa made over and over again; it just happens that most of the taxa that get that treatment happen to be theropods

I agree with you to some extent. However, I don't find that particular quote to be very accurate, as you can see in the stats collected by @Faelrin, really besides Tyrannosaurus, the rest of the most produced genera of each clade are comparable. Theropods still outnumber ornithischians, though not by that large of a margin, at least from my perspective. I would say that theropods that aren't famous / well known receive practically the same attention as ornithischians that also aren't famous. And as can be inferred from the info Faelrin shared, both groups receive far more attention than saudopodomorphs. As frequent as theropod figures may be, only the Vitae Tiantaiosaurus, Chilantaisaurus and Dino Hazard Irritator strike me as high quality and serious attempts of reconstructions of species rarely seen on the market.

@Concavenator All that said, theropods get such disproportionate attention that to me the errors that people point out in existing figures strike me as increasingly trivial. Tarsal scutes, the relative length of a single claw, the extent of extraoral tissue, the paint scheme. For someone who is more interested in other groups, those kinds of arguments kind of sound like lottery winners complaining about the paintwork on their yachts. I agree with you that the Safari Deinonychus is the best that has been made, but I disagree that their were no good ones previously. Kabaya, Rebor, Favorite, Kaiyodo, Colorata, even Mojo, sure, they were all inaccurate in some way or another, but they are all much more accurate than the Favorite Dunkleosteus, which is more accurate than any other Dunk except the tiny Kaiyodo. Similarly, as you might have noticed in my Irritator review, the lungfish had really serious inaccuracies, even though the theropod included up-to-the-minute data on the tail. So in the end, I don't really think theropods need defending. I mean, everything's already coming up theropod. Do lottery winners care that their neighbors are envious of their luck?

I agree with what you said here, that some of the inaccuracies are petty, and that collectors who are mostly into other groups have few options. I'm lucky that I like theropods, but if I wasn't so much into them I might feel just like you. Theropods may not need defending, but they don't need bashing either. When someone bashes a certain group, they are bashing their fans and people who like them. That is discouraging.

I am a lot more focused on theropods than you, but besides that, my collecting habits are similar to yours. I generally only get a representative of each taxa, unless a new one appears and is noticeably better than my previous one. That's why I tend to get new taxa every time I get the chance, and for that reason, from time to time I also have complaint thoughts regarding merely species' choices. For example, the upcoming EoFauna Diplodocus. I already have Carnegie's version, but I may still be interested in EoFauna's version. Would I have preferred a different sauropod species? Yes. Am I underwhelmed by these news? Nope, at all. It is an improved version of a dinosaur I already have, and I welcome it as that. I won't be complaining about it.

And, at the end of the day, diversity exists. It might not always be mixed with quality as to be expected from the companies we already know. But it's still there, and you must know it better than everyone else. I have been following your collection thread since quite some time. It's one of my favorite collection threads, as I think I have expressed before. But the most obvious aspect from your collection is how diverse it is, you have figures of species I had no clue were done. Some of them may not have the same quality as the models produced by the major brands, but there they are.

And regarding myself, I am perhaps too perfectionist. There are some specific genera that I have always wanted to have in my collection, like Deinonychus as I already said and, to add another example, Yutyrannus. But it's not until now, with Safari's version of Deinonychus and with PNSO's version of Yutyrannus that I finally find it appropiate to have these 2 at last, despite other decent versions having been made.

The word "Theropod" seems to be used by a lot of people to only mean the big, mostly scaly theopods like the aforementioned famous ones. To the point where I saw people saying that Safari Ltd didn't release any theropods in 2018 because Anzu "doesn't count". That is a peeve of mine.

You're right. That's why I keep saying everyone should be a little more careful when saying theropods are overrepresented.

[Bread]

I feel as if Tyrannosaurus gets bashed way too harshly for being constantly done in a pop culture manner as a toy. To me it is Velociraptor that is WAY too over done in the means of pop culture. Especially when there is absolute zero featherd applied to the genus. Sure, Tyrannosaurus is over done, but not as incorrectly done as Velociraptor figures (when of course the figure is produced in a non scientific manner).

Just a note, maybe I am following this discussion wrong but I wanted to put a little post of my therapod choice of pop culture influence.

[Reuben03]

I feel as if Tyrannosaurus gets bashed way too harshly for being constantly done in a pop culture manner as a toy. To me it is Velociraptor that is WAY too over done in the means of pop culture. Especially when there is absolute zero featherd applied to the genus. Sure, Tyrannosaurus is over done, but not as incorrectly done as Velociraptor figures (when of course the figure is produced in a non scientific manner).

Just a note, maybe I am following this discussion wrong but I wanted to put a little post of my therapod choice of pop culture influence.

i agree wholeheartedly with this

[Faelrin]

@Halichoeres It's sad the situation with prehistoric fish is quite bad, especially with fossil record accuracy, such as both of your examples, never mind the lack of options on the market. Bless Kaiyodo, CollectA, Safari Ltd, and O @Oammararak for all the choices they've given us in that regard, and whoever else. While I will patiently keep waiting for a new Dunkleosteus, it would also be nice to see some other placoderms get in the spotlight for once, let alone absolutely anything else. Lots of Mesozoic and Cenozoic fish with good remains that still remain untapped, other then plenty of Paleozoic too. Granted I think unless its predatory and big (hence why we see so many of Megalodon and Dunkleosteus specifically), chances of that are very slim sadly. I'm sure you are well aware by now, but one of my favorite groups are the "ostracoderms" (which I know is a paraphyletic term, but it works in my case as a catch all grouping of those prehistoric Paleozoic jawless fishes with armor). I'm lucky I have options for those at all.


@Gothmog the Baryonyx @Concavenator Yeah that's an issue. It's why I tried to make a point earlier about the neglected groups of theropods. So many beyond the top ten that can't even compete with the top ten ornithischians. Like why haven't we gotten an updated Stenonychosaurus yet? Or a single figure of Zhenyuanlong based on that amazing near complete find? Halzkaraptor, and many more still await their chance at the spotlight. Sauropodomorphs definitely have it bad beyond the top three as well. I'm still hoping for an updated Plateosaurus at least from Safari Ltd, but Massospondylus, and Mussaurus, if not many others should have a chance some day.

Sadly I don't think this will really change much in the coming years. It's why I try to buy what is available when I can (when I'm not focusing my attention on the Mattel line), depending on what is available at the time. PNSO for instance has been very good with some neglected theropods. Anchiornis (which the only alternative I'm aware of is the rare Takara one), Confuciusornis, Mei, Proceratosaurus, Sinosauropteryx (which Kaiyodo did in the past, but PNSO's take is up to date), and Yi (though I also have the Kaiyodo that I find superior), and if they ever return to doing minis (which I hope) I'm sure they may do some other interesting genera, some of which were discovered in the past couple of years. CollectA also did a figure Scuirumimus so who knows if they will do more along the lines.


@Bread That's a really interesting point although one I'm all too well aware of. Too many figures are labeled Velociraptor, but are anything but, as I posted above. Some of the exceptions to that over the years has been the Safari Ltd ones, or the few toys for the Disney Dinosaur movie, while despite being featherless, and shrinkwrapped, still get the skull shape generally right. An inaccurate Tyrannosaurus still typically has its anatomy generally recognizable at times, such as the iconic small two fingered hands, short neck, and large head, but many times they get the head's front profile wrong (such as no binocular vision). Back to Velociraptor, it is a strange conundrum I find myself in because I have nostalgia and enjoy the outdated JP depictions, but I appreciate them as movie monsters, or retro depictions of Deinonychus, but well it also has to be the actual JP depictions much of the time.

And on the topic of pop culture depictions, I clearly enjoy the JP/JW franchise or I wouldn't buy so many of those Mattel figures, particularly the raptors and rexes, despite being far from accurate much of the time. I suppose part of that is because I also quite enjoy action figures, always have, and other then BotM which is really the only serious line out there for dinosaur action figures, where else am I going to get things like an articulated Sarcosuchus and Scutosaurus (which is also a rarely made Permian animal as it is)? Spoiler as it does pertain to the next film,

Spoiler

but I sort of expect that Lystrosaurus may finally get some more time in the spotlight as well. And while it likely won't have accurate wings (at least I'm going to keep my expectations low, like Schleich Utahraptor low), it may be likely that the rumored/leaked Pyroraptor will be feathered which companies will want to capitalize on, especially being a film animal, chances of it being popular, and with children, are probably going to be up there. Granted Safari Ltd and especially BotM that already has two feathered Pyroraptor, with decent wings, is already going to be ahead of them anyways, but it may push others to start catching up.

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[Skorpio V.]

I think CollectA gets WAY too much flack for what they deserve after their 2020 Allosaurus. I think the few detractors it had (the big logo, wonky legs) were very valid criticisms but were over-emphasized. Call me crazy, I kinda like its form factor besides those things over the PNSO one.

[Stegotyranno420]

@Reuben03 Also agreed

[Bread]

@Faelrin Thank you, and actually I am fine with the JP/JW line from Mattel. I think the pop culture designs I am referring to are the Disney's Dinosaur Velociraptor sculpt. The build of the genus (slightly) but with the naked skin. I feel like that variant is way over done.

@Reuben03 and @Stegotyranno420 thank you as well.