David Silva's Beasts of the Mesozoic Tyrannosaur Series

[suspsy]

The loss of all four of the prototype T. rexes absolutely sucks. David must have surely have been furious. Glad it doesn't appear to be a serious setback.

[Faelrin]

Truly tragic to hear about that really. I don't know if an investigation to recover them is at all possible, but that's what I did with a package that didn't have tracking update for like three months I think, last year, but granted that was a different sort of scenario.

I'm relieved there's a backup plan in place to carry on, and this also makes me so super glad I got to see them when I did last year and take so many images of them. I truly hope none of the others suffers this fate though.

[Darko2300]

I just wonder how 'off' the paint samples he gets back from the factory will be. (Given that they were working form pictures of the Paint Masters instead of the actual Masters themselves.) What a headache. Hopefully he can get everything squared away, and I can't be the only one who'd rather wait a little longer for better painted production pieces than something that falls short of the prototype images.

[suspsy]

I doubt they'll be off given the multitude and quality of the prototype photos David has been sharing online. The factory should be able to get by with them. But again, it really is unfortunate that the moulds were lost. Maybe they'll miraculously show up sometime in the future.

[Concavenator]

Shouldn't the Eotyrannus have a narrower head?

Also, how is this genus classified now? I did a quick search and apparently it is now considered to be a stokesosaurid, but previously it was classified as a megaraptoran. If it truly was a megaraptoran I would be much more interested in it, but otherwise it's not a species I particularly care about.

The head reconstruction is up in the air at the moment as Naish (allegedly) has some unpublished info about it and is still under wraps. Currently I see two popular depictions: one follows Hartman's square boxy skull, while the other has a noticeably more gracile appearance.

Not sure about the classification personally, but I tend to follow the most recent thinking myself.

@Concavenator Also that reminds me, here's Dan Folkes reconstruction of Eotyrannus. I believe he has access to, or has insider knowledge on said unpublished material.

Well, that info is no longer unpublished! Actually Darren Naish finally announced it as a new monograph (with Andrea Cau as a coauthor) two days ago. Here's the new skeletal from the paper, looks just like that reconstruction by Dan Folkes:



I enquiried to David if would it be possible to modify the figure in order to reflect these new (and unusual) proportions. I'd say the figure would probably benefit from a narrower (as pointed out before) and slightly smaller head as well as a bit thicker arms. Not sure how possible it is to modify the figure by this point, but hey, guess you never know if you never ask!

[Flaffy]

Would be really cool if David could pull a Zhenyuanlong and redo the head and arms of the Eotyrannus figure to reflect new proportions.

Main discrepancies I notice so far are:
- Upturned snout not present on the new recontruction
- Skull is noticeably less square/boxy
- Arms & Digits should be more robust
- Third digit on the hand should be the longest. (on the figure, the second digit remains the longest)
- Torso could be more elongate

Most of the above can be fixed with a new head and hand sculpt, I doubt David is willing to go so far as to give Eotyrannus a unique body sculpt to accommodate the new skeletal. But maybe... just maybe... we could convince David that it's worth it to update the head and hand sculpts of the figure. @Concavenator

Side by side comparison with the BotM figure & Hartman's Eotyrannus skeletal (which David based the head sculpt and body on):

[Darko2300]

I'd love if this were possible - and the figure isn't due until Q4 of 2023 - if he was still tweaking the Rexes last month that are due to hit in September, you'd think there might be a possibility. I'd certainly jump for one if that's the case!

[Flaffy]

Found Raul Ramos's Eotyrannus skull, which David used to sculpt over. Very different from the new reconstruction, hence I think it's worth bringing up with David.

[GojiraGuy1954]

Found Raul Ramos's Eotyrannus skull, which David used to sculpt over. Very different from the new reconstruction, hence I think it's worth bringing up with David.

It'll be far too late into production to change the BoTM Eotyrannus now

[Darko2300]

It'll be far too late into production to change the BoTM Eotyrannus now

I'm not actually sure that's true, but I guess we'll see.

[Concavenator]

@Flaffy what did David correct on the Zhenyuanlong? Please correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK David didn't correct the proportions on the final figure, if that's what you mean, and I vaguely remember reading people like @Sim asking for a new, updated version that has accurate proportions (not very sure I remember correctly, I follow BotM threads but not super closely and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of stuff). At least, looking at the figure myself and comparing it to some skeletals I found like Ashley Patch's, the proportions aren't that good.

On another note, I had already let David know of this new reconstruction through an Instagram comment but I added another comment in which I included your suggestions @Flaffy . That said, since it's an Instagram comment, I'm not sure how helpful/useful that is. I believe @Faelrin and @Sim have a closer relationship with David so perhaps it would be more useful if they point this out to him. In any case, I think it would also help if more people bring this out. We don't know if a change is possible or not, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but if it really is possible it would be neat to have an updated figure of this species to be released, even more so considering figures of this species are very rare (according to the dinotoycollector.com site, only 4 figures of it exists, the CollectA, 2 by Paleo-Creatures, and the upcoming BotM) and it will probably be a long time until another one is released (if ever!).

[Sim]

David did correct some things on the Zhenyuanlong, he made the head smaller and gave it a better lower jaw, and he made the primaries accurate.  He made the secondaries longer too although not long enough unfortunately and the legs remained too short.  I was speaking with David via email but he stopped replying to me some weeks ago and I don't know why.  My guess is he's very busy, so I don't want to bother him by sending another email now.  I'd like to add that in the new Eotyrannus skeletal the second finger is longest, not the third, so the figure matches in that area.

[Flaffy]

I'd like to add that in the new Eotyrannus skeletal the second finger is longest, not the third, so the figure matches in that area.

@Sim Poor wording on my part apologies. What I meant was excluding the ungual phalanx (i.e. claw), the third digit's phalanges extend past the length of the second digit. Folkes' skeletal & artwork, along with Gabriel's recent-most Eotyrannus reconstruction all show this feature; the finger bones of the third digit extending past the finger bones of the second.



This however is not reflected on the figure. With the third digit's phalangeal length being far behind the second one. The reason why the second digit appears longer is due to the absolutely massive claw attached to it. (note that the claw of the third digit has not been recovered/preserved, so we don't actually know how large the third claw could've gotten)

[Flaffy]

David has gotten back to me, this was his response:

"Hi Ronald- thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately this is one of those cases where the info is coming in slightly too late. The tooling process has already begun for all of the body 1 figures so doing a new head at this stage is not really an option for this release.

I may be able to sneak in some updated hands though with the upcoming body 3 molds, which should be possible.

As for the head- yes the one on the current figure is slightly large compared to the new skeletal, however it is mostly covered in feathery fluff, so combined with the rough keratin  layer along the top of the snout and having lips, the basic shape is still feasible I think. I will concede that the skull may be about 5-10% too large based on new data.

These things are bound to happen sometimes, though. Perhaps there can be an updated head for a later release."

Unfortunate to hear that the head is too far along to be fixed. But there is still hope for the hands. I also suggested to swap out the long humerus for the short humerus parts to better reflect the skeletal's updated arm proportions. David was open to this change as well.



This got me thinking... What if the current Eotyrannus head sculpt was repurposed (renamed) into a different species? This way, the current tooled head won't be wasted, and a new updated Eotyrannus head sculpt can be produced. Candidates for the name switch include: Tanycolagreus, Stokesosaurus, Juratyrant, Timurlengia. Though I personally feel the first two are the most fitting. So effectively we'll have one entirely new species being represented in the line, along with a fully accurate Eotyrannus according to 2022 knowledge.


- Tanycolagreus. Subadult: 3.3 meters; Adult?: 4 meters. According to Naish et al. 2022, Tanycolagreus is now classified as a basal Tyrannosauroid, so very fitting for the line.



- Stokesosaurus. Juvenile: 2.5 meters (very fragmentary, literally just an ilium. But considering the inclusion of equally fragmentary species like Proceratosaurus, Moros & Alectrosaurus in the line...)

[suspsy]

Meh. The inaccuracies aren't that bad as far as I'm concerned.

[Faelrin]

I was wondering about this yesterday when I saw the new thread about the new publication. Forgot to come here to ask about what that meant though. I see folks have discussed this and I've gotten an idea.

I'm glad David was receptive to your feedback @Flaffy. It amazes me how he juggles his dedication with accuracy and the complicated reality of producing action figures. 

How different is the new skull reconstruction to the Eotyrannus sculpt? Is the figure's head just too big or too long? I'm willing to deal with a slightly too large or long head, especially if tooling was completed for it. I think the hands are the more important detail here, especially if he can sneak in a new sculpt for them.

Worth noting that sometimes this is the reality of toys vs science marching on. We've seen this happen a lot over several years now. Some examples in particular that run my mind are the beautiful sculpts for Dilophosaurus, Edmontosaurus, and Spinosaurus (and T. rex too now it seems), that @Doug Watson did all have had aspects become outdated as a result of new fossil material or new analysis of the existing material. This doesn't mean the figures need to be obsolete per se, although the allure of most up to date is exciting, as they are still fine works for the time they were created based on what was known and available at the time.

[Flaffy]

How different is the new skull reconstruction to the Eotyrannus sculpt? Is the figure's head just too big or too long? I'm willing to deal with a slightly too large or long head, especially if tooling was completed for it. I think the hands are the more important detail here, especially if he can sneak in a new sculpt for them.

@Faelrin A couple things I've noted down while waiting for David's response:
- General head shape too boxy
- Sloping head profile when it should be more flat/parallel to the maxilla
- Premaxilla should not have an upturn.
- Maxilla should not have such a deep curve to it, but instead should be more flat.
- Jugal tubercle placement should be further back, positioned behind the orbits and not in front.
- The entire area of the lacrimals is erroneous. Both shape and anatomy could be refined.
- Nares are the wrong shape, should be an elongated oblong rather than round.
- The dorsal nasal region currently covered in white fluff would've most likely supported a keratin ridge instead.
- Slightly oversized.

Since Raul's original skull reconstruction is already off in its anatomy, by further sculpting a layer of soft tissue onto the skull, it just makes the issues ever more apparent. Leading to a very stunted, robust, short-skulled Eotyrannus.




Interestingly, while not a perfect match, the current BotM Eotyrannus is very reminiscent of Hartman's Tanycolagreus reconstruction: funky lacrimals, sloping profile, jugal placement, boxy skull and all. The arm proportions are a good enough match to Hartman's skeletal too. All the current Eotyrannus figure needs to become a Tanycolagreus is a leg swap to the longer, more gracile pair.

[Faelrin]

Thank you for that in depth explanation with comparison images (I'm a visual learner so that really helps). Interesting that the current head sculpt could be used for Tanycolagreus.

[CarnotaurusKing]

So it begins...

[LBDINO]

So it begins...

Great to see these figures in hand, that neck covering always worried me I agree with video looks like a hoodie. Other then that these look phenomenal cant wait to get mine later this year.