Mesozoic Life Project - Kickstarter 2022

[Faelrin]

@Concavenator I appreciate you sharing that, and bringing this topic up. I think recall reading those articles way back when, and I think he does raise some interesting points. Honestly part of the draw of Spinosaurus for me is the mysterious nature of it, or its potential close relatives. Whatever all the bits and pieces we have belong too. That was the case with Deinocheirus for me, since I was a child, until the findings came to light in 2014. Bit by bit we seem to be learning more. The tail finding in particular so far is quite unique among other non-avian dinosaurs. I wonder if something quite like it will be found within our lifetimes. I mean never say never though. Deinocheirus is able to be reconstructed fully, based on not one, but two individuals with decent remains that filled the gaps left by the other, that were recovered within a short time span, but also Yi qi and Ambopteryx (which solved the mysterious nature of Yi qi when it was first described).

I think it is perfectly fine to approach a figure like this with caution and hold back on it however. I don't think it is much different then David's beautiful work on the more fragmentary species for the BotM line. And yes while I typically do prefer avoiding fragmentary taxa these days, I do make exceptions every once in a while, such as with this Spinosaurus, and hopefully the BotM Proceratosaurus (which we have a better understanding of in part due to Gaunlong's discovery. We also have much of the skull at least, although little else), as well as Cryolophosaurus with both the Safari Ltd figure, and upcoming Cyberzoic/BotM one, with its distinctive head crest, so far unique among theropods. If the inevitable time comes when science marches on, and this (and any of the others I mentioned above) is shown to be dated by new science, I will still love them much like the Papo 2019 Spinosaurus I bought a few months shortly before the tail finding in 2020. It's a testament to how our interpretations on the remains of these ancient animals evolves over time, much like they did millions of years ago when they walked (or swam, or flew, etc, you get the idea) on this earth.

You also brought up good examples with things like the Edmontosaurus hooves, etc. I know another example was the Safari Ltd Dilophosaurus that came out in 2020 I think it was, and then that new study came out showing it was more robust, and its crests were likely bigger in life. Still a beautiful figure, although a bit dated now. The Edmontosaurus from the same year I think also had the same with the hooves. It doesn't mean the figures are obsolete however. They are still works of art, created on what was known at the time, and new data is popping up much more quickly then in years prior, that things like this are almost inevitable now. In fact these risks probably carry to any extinct animal as well, not just fragmentary animals like Spinosaurus, etc. It may be more safer to stick with extant fauna (or recently extinct like the Thylacine), as well, those are still around to observe in life (unless it is something poorly understood like many deep sea marine organisms are).

[Halichoeres]

Yeah, I think the problem with Spinosaurus is less that it's fragmentary and more that it's unclear which "Spinosaurus" specimens should actually be so called. Cases like Deinocheirus are pretty infrequent; you're usually going to be mostly right filling in from better-known relatives. That said, if you're looking at something that is unusually large compared to its relatives, there are going to be proportion changes, and it's hard to know exactly what those will look like. So something like Gigantoraptor or Therizinosaurus might actually be pretty unusual, but an equally fragmentary relative closer to the average for its family will probably hold fewer surprises. Unfortunately, lots of people are really fixated on the "biggest __________," which means we run into this problem more often than we really should.

[Faelrin]

New update:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mesozoiclifeproject/ramses-spinosaurus-figure-scale-1-35-mesozoic-life/posts/3612246

Now considering they are using the same factory as the Dino Hazard Irritator (and some Rebor models in the past), and its shaky history, I'm a little bit suspicious. Then again I took a huge risk backing this in the first place, knowing that ahead of time. Hopefully though things just need more time. Here are some previous updates showing some stuff being worked on:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mesozoiclifeproject/ramses-spinosaurus-figure-scale-1-35-mesozoic-life/posts/3579198

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mesozoiclifeproject/ramses-spinosaurus-figure-scale-1-35-mesozoic-life/posts/3564327

[JohannesB]

I should have used that money on food, not plastic

[postsaurischian]

   I still hope everything is going well. It's such s beautiful sculpt. Please don't let this factory ruin it!

[Halichoeres]

  I still hope everything is going well. It's such s beautiful sculpt. Please don't let this factory ruin it!

And if I recall correctly, it's in your favorite color!

[Leyster]

Just keep calm, people. Accidents like this are common enough, we know some of them only because somebody bothered enough to share them. No one panicked when BOTM prototypes were lost at sea, after all.

[Faelrin]

L @Leyster If this is a standard delay, then yes it is not a big deal. Also those paint masters didn't even make it out of the US. Unfortunate but David is very transparent, and I believe uses the same factory Neca does. Not the same situation at all, even if that caused an inevitable delay.

The fact that this is the same factory that sold unauthorized copies of the Dino Hazard Irrirator, and if Rebor is to be believed here, the owner of that particular factory has a tendency to use funds to gamble, etc. I did some digging in that thread, and apparently that figure is still being sold unauthorized in that link Rebor posted (and digging on that wesbite revealed that they are also the owners of that EDAGE brand, which I'm pretty sure has sold bootlegs of Rebor, and other products in the past before. Edit: Yep. They absolutely did with their older baby Triceratops Jolly. See here). Again I know I took a big risk backing this figure in the first place, knowing they were using this factory. That said if the Dino Hazard Irritator was able to be released, and turned out quite well, then we should hopefully see the same for this figure, even if there is a delay. I just hope for such a new brand, no problems arise for Blayken (or the backers who helped him get this far), and we don't see the same situation happen to him. At least he is being transparent about this process so far, or perhaps the best he can be, with the information available to him.

[Halichoeres]

BotM is probably in a place where even if a mold were destroyed or something else fairly catastrophic happened, they have the means to recover. I don't think the Mesozoic Life line is in the same position. A serious production problem really could kill it in the cradle. Not that I'm saying that's likely, but I'm not sure the situations are really comparable.

[JohannesB]

I have had a problem with this thing. On 2 september I was charged the €63, but now the guy says I "don't appear in the data base and according to the system I was not charged anything". Ridiculous And if I don't appear in "the database" and if he can't see I was charged the €63, how could I convince him otherwise? How could this happen anyway?

[Abobo]

I have had a problem with this thing. On 2 september I was charged the €63, but now the guy says I "don't appear in the data base and according to the system I was not charged anything". Ridiculous And if I don't appear in "the database" and if he can't see I was charged the €63, how could I convince him otherwise? How could this happen anyway?

no problem for me whatsoever
hope it's just a temporary problem?

[Faelrin]

@JohannesB Check your backerkit survey (and your payment method such as what card was used or paypal), which you should have received a link to in your email. That'll show you if got charged. I would screencap that then, and approach him in a message with that, especially if you were charged. If you weren't charged you should have received a message about insufficient funds (from lack of money or invalid card).

Granted this should only be applicable if you ordered any addons/extra figures in the backerkit survey.

[JohannesB]

@JohannesB Check your backerkit survey (and your payment method such as what card was used or paypal), which you should have received a link to in your email. That'll show you if got charged. I would screencap that then, and approach him in a message with that, especially if you were charged. If you weren't charged you should have received a message about insufficient funds (from lack of money or invalid card).

Granted this should only be applicable if you ordered any addons/extra figures in the backerkit survey.

Thanks for the information. Backerkit says I was successfully charged €63. The guy from Mesozoic Life Project says I wasn't.

[Concavenator]

@JohannesB I would also do what @Faelrin says, do a screen cap showing you were charged indeed, and send that to Blayken.

[JohannesB]

@JohannesB I would also do what @Faelrin says, do a screen cap showing you were charged indeed, and send that to Blayken.

Thank you. Yes, I did that.

Update:

The situation seems to have been cleared up. This is what I got as a response:

"I see that it was a system error due to the initial failure of the kickstarter payment. It was all archived and that's why I didn't see it initially, my apologies for the situation. So, according to what I read here, you have already provided a payment from backerkit and not from the Kickstarter [...] is that correct? If so, you should not do anything else."

I don't know what it means, exactly, but I think it means he got the money.

[Faelrin]

@JohannesB What I'm gathering is that for some reason your kickstarter pledge was denied initially (lack of funds or invalid card). You only have a week to correct that otherwise your pledge would be removed. And if that was never corrected you probably wouldn't have gotten the backerkit survey in the first place, but since you do have the survey, you should be okay there. Again best way to check that is your transaction history on whatever card was used back in May for that, aside from kickstarter itself.

[Thialfi]

This just in courtesy of Kevin Miguel:

Greetings backers, I appreciate your patience with the entire development process of the Spinosaurus figure, since we are currently finishing negotiations with a different factory and see how viable everything would be.

This is due to the fact that last month I warned you in the last update that the previous factory was not meeting the established deadlines and had decided to give you a little more time to do so. But recently our insiders inside the factory revealed to us that they were indeed not doing what they were asked to do, which has been a huge disappointment.

Fortunately we have enough funds to continue, although we have to negotiate so that everything is enough to be able to manufacture the product and be able to send it later.

At the moment, we only know that the cost of manufacturing ONLY the current steel mold amounts to 13,500 USD, a price higher than the almost 10,000 USD that the previous factory offered us, therefore we still have to negotiate the number of products that will be manufactured. Well, we only need 450 or 500 instead of 1,000, which is the usual number that factories ask for in this type of situation.

Additionally, as many have advised us, we will ask for help from David Silva, creator of the line of Beast of the Mesozoic figures to see if he can advise us on what would be the best step to follow, since the current factory can manufacture the product but not the packing, so when I have everything clear I will inform you.

Thanks for your patience and understanding, I hope this doesn't take longer than the Kickstarter deadline but hey, time will tell.

I hope to inform you at the end of this month or the beginning of next month, thanks for everything.

[Faelrin]

I appreciate him trying to be transparent with all of this. Hopefully this next factory works out, especially since the previous one basically scammed him in short from what I'm understanding, or was playing him along, wasting time and funds. Again not at all surprising to me considering the track record, but it does add more fuel to the fire. Hopefully it isn't a huge setback for him, and ultimately us, the backers. Hopefully David can give them advice or some help in this situation, with all of his experience with this stuff.

[Flaffy]

Which begs the question as to why he used this factory in the first place, which was well renowned at that point to have a shoddy track record.

[Thialfi]

Same here, I bear Miguel absolutely no ill will. He is working hard to make his project come to life. It's a complex situation and I am absolutely sure he is doing all he can to make it a success. I am still happy I funded the project and can't wait to see what will come from it.

@Flaffy good question, though when caught up in a project I can see how someone can get persuaded in doing something against their better judgement.