PNSO : New for 2023

[Carnoking]

Still seems quite possible and/or probable to me that this figure and very possibly that making of video were in production long before the new paper dropped, especially since they directly reference a 2022 paper on the Sue Skull

[Concavenator]

Thank you @Faras ! Looking forward to the potential Gorgosaurus and Daspletosaurus.

[Bread]

Well... I caved in and purchased the new Tyrannosaurus. Purchased through LanaTimeShop. Came out to be a little over $80 with taxes/fees, free shipping though.

Sending it right over to be repainted with the addition of lips.

Do I regret this purchase? No.
Is it a good model? Yes.
Does it have issues? Yes.
Is it overpriced? Yes.
But do I love it? Yes.
Am I excited for it to be repainted w/ the addition of lips? Absolutely

[SRF]

Good for you @Bread. I'm looking forward to the final result!

[Medzo]

I don't know when PNSO has sculpted this figure, or when this video was even initially recorded, but it is a shame that many of the points raised about Tyrannosaurus facial integument (lips) could be considered outdated or inaccurate now, thanks to Cullen et al's 2023 paper.

I can't open the whole paper. Does it address concerns about the lower jaw being significantly smaller as the Zhao pointed out in his video?

I always read this komodo dragon comparison as an example, but just looking at its skull, the size difference is not that apparent in its case. Unlike with Sue:

[JohannesB]

So I watched the video and I'm now a little redeemd. It seems to be a fine Rex-Reconstruction.

He mentions that it is quite likely that Cameron was in the works before THE PAPER, so lips were not seriously considered , though he did also state that work was attempted with a lipped prototype of some sort, but the results were unsatisfactory.

It seems to me that he has a strong bias towards no lips, and therefore not willing or able to objectively weigh all the "facts" (i.e. bone placement and factoring in the soft tissue) against each other, even though the "evidence" seems to lean more heavily towards a (fully) lipped T. rex. I am wondering, was it not already rather obvious before the Cullen and others 2023 paper that lips were highly likely? Then again, to repeat what others have said, PNSO are to be commended for their steadfastness, I guess. I just hope their steadfastness will not prove to be blind stubbornness. In any case, I love their latest "Wilson" T. rex, and although this latest one ("Cameron") does have its obvious appeal, I can't really legitimise a purchase because of two reasons: no lips (if it did have lips, I would possibly buy it, because it would pose as a beautiful contrast with the "old school" T. rex Wilson), and the high price. Although, admittedly, price would be less of an issue if this model did indeed have lips.

[Faelrin]

@Medzo I'd really recommend reading Mark Witton's post on the paper, which I linked above, as well as the supplementary material (which is not paywalled) included with the paper. I'll link it again here though just in case.

Before the paper became paywalled, if I recall correctly, key things it covered was teeth size and jaw size (which I think there are tables of in the supplementary material available), the shape and placement of formaina on the jaws, and comparing enamel from a Daspletosaurus and extant Alligator tooth (and a breakdown on why it is important to have enamel protected by constant moisture). The teeth size to jaw size correlated with varanid lizards (countering the claim from anti-lip proponents in the past that the teeth were too big for having lips), and the enamel of the Daspletosaurus tooth was relatively in tact, while the Alligator tooth was not. The supplementary material also made good points about how far the skull of Tyrannosaurus could close without it breaking. They found it could not fully close (such as on many theropod figures for example, including PNSO's), without breaking, and would need to be somewhat open, which also leaves the enamel on the lower teeth exposed, unless there were lips to keep the moisture in.

I wrote about what the paper discussed in more detail in both my Beasts of the Mesozoic 1/35 Tyrannosaurus and Yutyrannus reviews, which I would recommend checking as well, since I wrote that info back when the paper was not paywalled and the info within was fresh on my mind, in case it would be of any help.

[stargatedalek]

I am wondering, was it not already rather obvious before the Cullen and others 2023 paper that lips were highly likely?

I would certainly say so.

The whole idea of theropods not having lips started because of a concept in paleoart that picked up through the 90's which was to depict expectations of behaviour through an animals appearance. Predatory dinosaurs were meant to look ferocious so people would interpret them as active predators, hence emaciating them like modern big cats and exposing their teeth.

If you look at paleoart from the 80's or earlier dinosaurs are usually depicted with varanid styled lips, because it just made sense from a comparative anatomy perspective.

[Remko]

I am wondering, was it not already rather obvious before the Cullen and others 2023 paper that lips were highly likely?

I would certainly say so.

The whole idea of theropods not having lips started because of a concept in paleoart that picked up through the 90's which was to depict expectations of behaviour through an animals appearance. Predatory dinosaurs were meant to look ferocious so people would interpret them as active predators, hence emaciating them like modern big cats and exposing their teeth.

If you look at paleoart from the 80's or earlier dinosaurs are usually depicted with varanid styled lips, because it just made sense from a comparative anatomy perspective.

Indeed, look at this Tyrannosaurus from "The Valley of Gwangi" from 1969. Full on lips!

Also, very funny, in Jurassic Park, the Tyrannosaurus doesn't have lips, but the Velociraptors do have fully covered lips, even capable of growling.
When I first saw them back in 1993, they were my absolute favorite depiction of this type of dinosaur, apart from the lack of feathers of course.

[Prehistory Resurrection]

[mgaguilar]

HUGE fan of Cameron. I've been waiting for an offering from PNSO that was less monstrous looking than Wilson. Both are incredible when compared to other figures on the market, but Cameron seems to just get almost everything right.

I feel it is only a matter of time before PNSO offers full lip coverage on their Tyrannosaur offerings. I hope they also offer some alternative paints schemes like they did with Essian.

[TheImmortalEye]

HUGE fan of Cameron. I've been waiting for an offering from PNSO that was less monstrous looking than Wilson. Both are incredible when compared to other figures on the market, but Cameron seems to just get almost everything right.

I feel it is only a matter of time before PNSO offers full lip coverage on their Tyrannosaur offerings. I hope they also offer some alternative paints schemes like they did with Essian.

mentioning essien,  hope he also gets an updated 1:35 museumline now that lucas and wilson did

[CARN0TAURUS]

I am wondering, was it not already rather obvious before the Cullen and others 2023 paper that lips were highly likely?

I would certainly say so.

The whole idea of theropods not having lips started because of a concept in paleoart that picked up through the 90's which was to depict expectations of behaviour through an animals appearance. Predatory dinosaurs were meant to look ferocious so people would interpret them as active predators, hence emaciating them like modern big cats and exposing their teeth.

If you look at paleoart from the 80's or earlier dinosaurs are usually depicted with varanid styled lips, because it just made sense from a comparative anatomy perspective.

QFT, fantastic post!  YES, I remember all those lipped theropods from my childhood and they both fascinated and scared the heck out of me.  I find lips on Komodo dragons every bit as scary as exposed teeth on Crocodiles.  I would be equally terrified to come face to face with either species.  If anything the Komodo looks even more sinister as the weapons are sheathed but you know full well that they are there.

The beauty of the BotM model with its lips has completely switched me over to the lipped camp and plus all that I've learned from reading what you guys discuss here.  I think it's just a matter of time before PNSO responds to the demand for lipped theropods.  At the rate that they upgrade their sculpts, if anyone is wavering on getting Cameron, I'd say hold on to your hard earned cash.  There is no doubt in my mind that PNSO will release a new "definitive" T-rex within the next 2 years.  Especially if the Eofauna figure sells like hot cakes, I'm pretty sure that "kiss" out sold "tusk" too, and while I don't have exact numbers on the BotM figure those seem to have sold out rather fast.  PNSO is going to come around and decide that they want a piece of that market too.

[CARN0TAURUS]

HUGE fan of Cameron. I've been waiting for an offering from PNSO that was less monstrous looking than Wilson. Both are incredible when compared to other figures on the market, but Cameron seems to just get almost everything right.

I feel it is only a matter of time before PNSO offers full lip coverage on their Tyrannosaur offerings. I hope they also offer some alternative paints schemes like they did with Essian.

@mgaguilar
There is no doubt in my mind that PNSO will introduce their own lipped T-rex within the next 2 years.  Especially with how well the currently available Rebor and BotM lipped versions have been selling.  I'd even go as far to say that it would've been more fiscally responsible of PNSO to release Cameron later, at least until after perfecting the movable jaw with lips. 

But PNSO doesn't operate like any other company I can remember.  They replace their own figures at such a high rate basically abandoning the profitability of current molds before other companies have even had the opportunity to surpass them.  They constantly surpass themselves.  I kind of like that approach because it has led to dramatic improvement on the quality and realism of their figures.  I still don't understand how they can manage to do this financially.  However, as a collector of miniature toy dinosaur replicas, PNSO's approach has introduced a lot of quality/definitive figures to the market.  I don't understand how they make the money work, but I'm grateful to have their wonderful figures in my collection.

[SRF]

@Carnoking it seems like there will be a sale on AliExpress from June 10 up to June 18.

Looking into it some more, it seems that the big summer sale starts on June 12. Tomorrow, some sort of warm up starts, but I don't know what that means.

[TheImmortalEye]

@Carnoking it seems like there will be a sale on AliExpress from June 10 up to June 18.

Looking into it some more, it seems that the big summer sale starts on June 12. Tomorrow, some sort of warm up starts, but I don't know what that means.

usually just shows u which figures will be on sale, and presale of other stuff

[Joel1905]

HUGE fan of Cameron. I've been waiting for an offering from PNSO that was less monstrous looking than Wilson. Both are incredible when compared to other figures on the market, but Cameron seems to just get almost everything right.

I feel it is only a matter of time before PNSO offers full lip coverage on their Tyrannosaur offerings. I hope they also offer some alternative paints schemes like they did with Essian.

@mgaguilar
There is no doubt in my mind that PNSO will introduce their own lipped T-rex within the next 2 years.  Especially with how well the currently available Rebor and BotM lipped versions have been selling.  I'd even go as far to say that it would've been more fiscally responsible of PNSO to release Cameron later, at least until after perfecting the movable jaw with lips. 

But PNSO doesn't operate like any other company I can remember.  They replace their own figures at such a high rate basically abandoning the profitability of current molds before other companies have even had the opportunity to surpass them.  They constantly surpass themselves.  I kind of like that approach because it has led to dramatic improvement on the quality and realism of their figures.  I still don't understand how they can manage to do this financially.  However, as a collector of miniature toy dinosaur replicas, PNSO's approach has introduced a lot of quality/definitive figures to the market.  I don't understand how they make the money work, but I'm grateful to have their wonderful figures in my collection.

From what I've heard, and seen of their HQ, PNSO have A LOT of money to play with... and they sell very well in China.

[CARN0TAURUS]

HUGE fan of Cameron. I've been waiting for an offering from PNSO that was less monstrous looking than Wilson. Both are incredible when compared to other figures on the market, but Cameron seems to just get almost everything right.

I feel it is only a matter of time before PNSO offers full lip coverage on their Tyrannosaur offerings. I hope they also offer some alternative paints schemes like they did with Essian.

@mgaguilar
There is no doubt in my mind that PNSO will introduce their own lipped T-rex within the next 2 years.  Especially with how well the currently available Rebor and BotM lipped versions have been selling.  I'd even go as far to say that it would've been more fiscally responsible of PNSO to release Cameron later, at least until after perfecting the movable jaw with lips. 

But PNSO doesn't operate like any other company I can remember.  They replace their own figures at such a high rate basically abandoning the profitability of current molds before other companies have even had the opportunity to surpass them.  They constantly surpass themselves.  I kind of like that approach because it has led to dramatic improvement on the quality and realism of their figures.  I still don't understand how they can manage to do this financially.  However, as a collector of miniature toy dinosaur replicas, PNSO's approach has introduced a lot of quality/definitive figures to the market.  I don't understand how they make the money work, but I'm grateful to have their wonderful figures in my collection.

From what I've heard, and seen of their HQ, PNSO have A LOT of money to play with... and they sell very well in China.

I have no idea if it's true or not but someone posted on here a long time ago that they also get government backing as well.  I could care less what they are doing as long as they remain viable and don't go out of business for spending too much in development and production of too many new molds.

[SRF]

@Carnoking it seems like there will be a sale on AliExpress from June 10 up to June 18.

Looking into it some more, it seems that the big summer sale starts on June 12. Tomorrow, some sort of warm up starts, but I don't know what that means.

usually just shows u which figures will be on sale, and presale of other stuff

You're right. The good news is, Cameron is among the figures that are on sale. So I'll finally be making my purchase on Monday then. 

[Medzo]

You're right. The good news is, Cameron is among the figures that are on sale. So I'll finally be making my purchase on Monday then. 

Wallet equally opens here.