PNSO - New for 2024

[Sim]

That's interesting regarding Acrocanthosaurus.  As for Meraxes, I don't see a difference between the shape of its claw and the PNSO figure's claw?:

  (Image source)
  (Image source)

[Leyster]

@Sim you should read the paper. Of course there is no osteology of Meraxes yet, and photos are not that informative since you're looking at a picture deformed by perspective and you can't see the thickness of the claw.

Also, the size of the toe phalanges itself it's not accurate, even from the photo you can see how II-1 is way too small than it should be.

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

I feel like you're trying way too hard to call this figure inaccurate in a way that is quite frankly inconsequential

[Sim]

I don't know, I think in the photo of the Meraxes foot, one can see the thickness of the claw by looking at the top of it.  If it was thicker it would extend the visible part of the claw dorsolaterally.  As for the phalanx II-1, to me it seems it's length isn't inaccurate if the beginning of it is concealed in flesh.

[John]

*edit*
On the subject of this new Tyrannotitan not being "lipped":
It would seem that the mold for this had been done before the shift to the "lipped" look had been made for their theropods but is only now being released according to Paleofiguras.

Is this actually confirmed from insider sources or just speculation?

They say they have information on the Paleofiguras Facebook page but it is the internet,so it could be just made up crap on their part.

[Leyster]

@Sim the point is that II-3, is NOT thick (unlike the other pedal unguals), it's laterally compressed instead of being roughly triangular in cross section as the norm for theropod pedal unguals.

Besides being the largest of the feet, ungual II-3 shows a moderately sharp ventral edge, different from the rounded surface observed in the remaining unguals

(from Canale et al. 2022)

As for the phalanx II-1, to me it seems it's length isn't inaccurate if the beginning of it is concealed in flesh.

It is not, in the model it's quite clear where it articulates with the metatarsals.

I feel like you're trying way too hard to call this figure inaccurate in a way that is quite frankly inconsequential

Perhaphs for you this is inconsequential, but the anatomy of its hindlimb is one of the most interesting features of Meraxes, something quite unexpected which might end up proving that derived Carcharodontosaurids were doing something with their hindlimbs we would not have imagined before its discovery, so being misrepresented is somehow annoying. It's a nice model, but it could have been even better with a little more attention for these details.

[DefinitelyNOTDilo]

I'd say the details are just fine, your arguments boil down to the claw being a bit too wide when viewed from above, something which by the way could very easily be accounted for through individual variation or taphonomic deformation imo.

[Sim]

@Sim the point is that II-3, is NOT thick (unlike the other pedal unguals), it's laterally compressed instead of being roughly triangular in cross section as the norm for theropod pedal unguals.

I understand what you mean now!  However, looking at the PNSO figure's foot in a video review shows the second toe claw IS laterally compressed, compared to the other toe claws.  It can be seen at 7:42 in the video below.

Perhaphs for you this is inconsequential, but the anatomy of its hindlimb is one of the most interesting features of Meraxes, something quite unexpected which might end up proving that derived Carcharodontosaurids were doing something with their hindlimbs we would not have imagined before its discovery, so being misrepresented is somehow annoying. It's a nice model, but it could have been even better with a little more attention for these details.

As far as I've seen Tyrannotitan's second toe claw isn't different to the usual condition in theropods.  If Mapusaurus evolved from Meraxes, perhaps it too had a sickle claw like Meraxes...  As for Giganotosaurus, it appears to be intermediate between Tyrannotitan and Meraxes, so its second toe claw could be either like that of Tyrannotitan or Meraxes.  Carcharodontosaurus is more basal than all these other carcharodontosaurids so I think it's most likely it had a "normal" second toe claw like Tyrannotitan.  I wonder why a sickle claw evolved in carcharodontosaurids?  Especially since the one I would expect it in the most, Concavenator, doesn't have it.

[Manospundylus gigas]

@Sim you should read the paper. Of course there is no osteology of Meraxes yet, and photos are not that informative since you're looking at a picture deformed by perspective and you can't see the thickness of the claw.

Also, the size of the toe phalanges itself it's not accurate, even from the photo you can see how II-1 is way too small than it should be.

Theres actually osteology of Meraxes pes by Palombi with plenty of photos of every angle of each MT but not the phalanax nor unguals.

@Sim the point is that II-3, is NOT thick (unlike the other pedal unguals), it's laterally compressed instead of being roughly triangular in cross section as the norm for theropod pedal unguals.

I understand what you mean now!  However, looking at the PNSO figure's foot in a video review shows the second toe claw IS laterally compressed, compared to the other toe claws.  It can be seen at 7:42 in the video below.

Perhaphs for you this is inconsequential, but the anatomy of its hindlimb is one of the most interesting features of Meraxes, something quite unexpected which might end up proving that derived Carcharodontosaurids were doing something with their hindlimbs we would not have imagined before its discovery, so being misrepresented is somehow annoying. It's a nice model, but it could have been even better with a little more attention for these details.

As far as I've seen Tyrannotitan's second toe claw isn't different to the usual condition in theropods.  If Mapusaurus evolved from Meraxes, perhaps it too had a sickle claw like Meraxes...  As for Giganotosaurus, it appears to be intermediate between Tyrannotitan and Meraxes, so its second toe claw could be either like that of Tyrannotitan or Meraxes.  Carcharodontosaurus is more basal than all these other carcharodontosaurids so I think it's most likely it had a "normal" second toe claw like Tyrannotitan.  I wonder why a sickle claw evolved in carcharodontosaurids?  Especially since the one I would expect it in the most, Concavenator, doesn't have it.

.

Mapu cant be descendant of Meraxes, they lived almost at the same time, and Meraxes is a more primitive taxon than Giga+Mapu dichotomy, that are sister taxa, some even argue they are same genus. For the same reason Giga cant be be intermediate between Tyrannotitan and Meraxes because is more derived than the latter although it lived little earlier.

As for PNSO models and this Tyrannotitan, I would like to point out something that I havent seen it has been mentioned earlier, and is that PNSO has decided to put theropods scapulacoracoid in a more vertical position, instead the subhorizontal position is usually seen in other models/paleo media/paleo artists reconstructions. And I really appreciate it as they look more correct to me, they give space for the 10th presacral ribs. The often used  subhorizontal position place the coracoids (and then the furcula) so high that there is barely any space left for the throat and muscles, sometimes so much that I can imagine the poor theropods choking with any good sized piece of meat. The subvertical position is also almost the only possible position (at least for some taxa) as it allows the ribs of theropods that have dorsalized the last cervical, such Allosaurus and probably Giganotosaurus and Tyrannotitan, to be placed in a natural way without colliding and being constrained by the scapulacoracoid.
Afaik this position has been used by PNSO since the beginning of the Carcharodontosaurids and they mentioned the reasons of going with it in the video of Cameron (due the gastralia, and different to Wilson).   

[Sim]

Mapu cant be descendant of Meraxes, they lived almost at the same time, and Meraxes is a more primitive taxon than Giga+Mapu dichotomy, that are sister taxa, some even argue they are same genus. For the same reason Giga cant be be intermediate between Tyrannotitan and Meraxes because is more derived than the latter although it lived little earlier.

I don't really put trust in proposed relationships between very closely related animals as they have proved to be unreliable and change every now and then.

[Dan]

Use Dan's Dinosaurs promo code "dtfmember" during checkout for
$7.00 off PNSO Tyrannotitan
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[Leyster]

@Sim the point is that II-3, is NOT thick (unlike the other pedal unguals), it's laterally compressed instead of being roughly triangular in cross section as the norm for theropod pedal unguals.

I understand what you mean now!  However, looking at the PNSO figure's foot in a video review shows the second toe claw IS laterally compressed, compared to the other toe claws.  It can be seen at 7:42 in the video below.

@Sim I litterally have the PNSO Meraxes 20 cm from my nose, not a video review    And I tell you that is still triangular in cross section

Perhaphs for you this is inconsequential, but the anatomy of its hindlimb is one of the most interesting features of Meraxes, something quite unexpected which might end up proving that derived Carcharodontosaurids were doing something with their hindlimbs we would not have imagined before its discovery, so being misrepresented is somehow annoying. It's a nice model, but it could have been even better with a little more attention for these details.

As far as I've seen Tyrannotitan's second toe claw isn't different to the usual condition in theropods.  If Mapusaurus evolved from Meraxes, perhaps it too had a sickle claw like Meraxes...  As for Giganotosaurus, it appears to be intermediate between Tyrannotitan and Meraxes, so its second toe claw could be either like that of Tyrannotitan or Meraxes.  Carcharodontosaurus is more basal than all these other carcharodontosaurids so I think it's most likely it had a "normal" second toe claw like Tyrannotitan.  I wonder why a sickle claw evolved in carcharodontosaurids?  Especially since the one I would expect it in the most, Concavenator, doesn't have it.

Thyrannotitan's II-3 shows a non compressed condition, yes, but the skeleton was found in partially articulated conditions and there is some doubt if it's really a II-3 (it wasn't originally interpreted as so, in example, see Novas et al. 2005). Many person with some knowledge on carcharodontosaurids informally doubted it's a II-3, after Meraxes.

About the relationship of derived carcharodontosaurids, currently it's quite a mess (ie. Canale et al recovered Meraxes as the basalmost derived carcharodontosaurid, while for Cau 2024 it's more basal), so considering the uncertainties surrounding Tyrannotitan's II-3 I'd say it's a safer bet to expect Meraxes' morphology on at least things like Mapusaurus and Giganotosaurus.

[Manospundylus gigas]

About the relationship of derived carcharodontosaurids, currently it's quite a mess (ie. Canale et al recovered Meraxes as the basalmost derived carcharodontosaurid, while for Cau 2024 it's more basal), so considering the uncertainties surrounding Tyrannotitan's II-3 I'd say it's a safer bet to expect Meraxes' morphology on at least things like Mapusaurus and Giganotosaurus.

Are you referring to Cau's compsognathid paper? cause theropod philogeny wasnt the subject of that work and there are many errors in his matrix, e.g Saurophaganax being sister to Yangchuanosaurus and a metriacanthosaurid when many of the characters differentiating it from Allosaurus are wrong or are shared with fragilis but not jimmadseni, that werent included as different but as one species. So in regard of theropods philogeny as a whole that Cau's work shouldn't be taken as a source, it is a study about compsognathids not bein real, he made a good case about that but he himself noted that the position of taxa wasn't mean to be taken as definitive (and in that matter there are reportedly adult Compsognathus individuals in France).

[SRF]

Based on a Facebook post of Paleofiguras about a PNSO exhibition, a lipped Tyrannosaurus is definitely to be expected from PNSO.

So that Tyrannotitan will probably just be a sculpt that was made alongside the other Carcharodontosaurids from last year. Maybe PNSO has a backlog of more lipless figures, but lipped figures will probably get the upper hand someday.

[Sim]

I wonder if it's possible that the keratin sheath of the second toe claw of Meraxes could change its shape into that of the PNSO figure?  It seems unlikely but not impossible, as I've read speculation that the keratin sheath of dromaeosaurid sickle claws could have been serrated.

[Carnoking]

Based on a Facebook post of Paleofiguras about a PNSO exhibition, a lipped Tyrannosaurus is definitely to be expected from PNSO.

So that Tyrannotitan will probably just be a sculpt that was made alongside the other Carcharodontosaurids from last year. Maybe PNSO has a backlog of more lipless figures, but lipped figures will probably get the upper hand someday.

Saw that statue and whereas I'm sure it's not indicative of what to expect from PNSO for a lipped Tyrannosaurus, anything even remotely similar to it would definitely be my definitive rex!
Here's hoping they would give it a slightly more distinct paint job than their other rex figures so far though.

[thomasw100]

There seems more to this exhibition than just the T-rex.

[Leyster]

M @Manospundylus gigas that was just the first paper I remembered of. But derived Carcharodontosauridae have always been quite unstable, see how Tyrannotitan and Carcharodontosaurus switched place in Ortega et al (2010) and Novas et al (2013).

PS: not sure about the supposed "adult Compsognathus" (or any adult compsognathid, for the matter).

[Concavenator]

L @Leyster Thank you for the correction! I really had no clue about PNSO's Meraxes' II-3 claw not matching the fossil material. I just saw it superficially resembled it, and that it was the longest and assumed it was accurate, but turns out not to be the case. I don't have  PNSO's Acrocanthosaurus either, so I can't take any measurements, and just went with @Halichoeres ' (and concerning the range of movement of the arm I just took it from DinosDragon's review, I also didn't know about that). But again, I appreciate your insight.  About the Acrocanthosaurus, those were the two main (liplessness aside) quirks I had with it, so since they're now gone, I might pick it up sooner than I intended! 

I feel like you're trying way too hard to call this figure inaccurate in a way that is quite frankly inconsequential

Well, Leyster already explained themselves. When figures advertised as scientifically accurate are concerned, I think it's interesting, educational and perfectly valid to discuss scientific inaccuracies. AFAIK, nobody is discussing such inaccuracies in something like a JP/JW-inspired depiction, because that's out of place, and that's not the case here. And sometimes inaccuracies are called trivial, but "trivial" as an adjective is really arbitrary. For example, some people are unbothered by the hornlets on the Haolonggood Maiasaura, others are mildly annoyed, and for others, it's a dealbreaker. So what's trivial to one person may not be to another, and that's perfectly fine. As collectors we have different criteria and it's not our duty to judge other collector's perspectives, we just collect the way we choose to do it. 

Saw that statue and whereas I'm sure it's not indicative of what to expect from PNSO for a lipped Tyrannosaurus, anything even remotely similar to it would definitely be my definitive rex!

I don't see why it couldn't be an indicative. The exhibition also shows bronze (?) versions of the same Mamenchisaurus and Alamosaurus sculpts that are available as PVC figures. So the way I see it, that Tyrannosaurus sculpt could end up being eventually released as a PVC figure. Either way, I have always thought it's pretty obvious they will eventually be releasing a lipped Tyrannosaurus. Which would represent an improvement over Cameron, but is it really necessary? Lack of lips aside, Cameron is a fine Tyrannosaurus. They could keep releasing new species instead, but when revisits are concerned, there are one or two (or several!) PNSO figures that would substantially benefit from a remake, much more than Cameron would.  But yeah, I get it, the sales.

Here's hoping they would give it a slightly more distinct paint job than their other rex figures so far though.

I'm reminded of this quote by @Halichoeres :

Well, if PNSO is smart, they'll always hold back from making a T. rex too perfect, so that they can release a new and improved one two years later and reap another windfall.

Surely their upcoming Tyrannosaurus will be lipped... but will still be brown. So that could create the need for a Tyrannosaurus that's both lipped, and with an eye-catching color scheme. 

[Joel1905]

I've taken the liberty of adjusting the first pic so we can get a better look at it.

It looks incredible! If PNSO repurpose this sculpt as a 1:35 PVC model then it'll be THE definitive Tyrannosaurus Rex model!

Strong resemblance to the Saurian reconstruction too!