Safari 2020

[SidB]

A shame about the lack of "hooves" on the Edmontosaurus, but damn that figure is a work of art.
Easily the standout of Safari's 2020 lineup.

Can't fault them for the lack of hooves. That info only came out a few months ago. These figures are in development for at least a year or more. Can't wait for more information to come out on the Dakota specimen.

The Edmontosaurus is at the top of my 2020 purchase list. What I would really like  is advice from the technically informed on HOW to potentially modify the existing Safari product so as to incorporate the new findings, without doing any substantial harm to the integrity of the sculpt. Any ideas?

Just paint them on?

Yes, that seems about right, but the question behind the first would be, how large, how extensive should they be? Are there any current images that would illustrate how they might look?

S @SidB You can see the hoof here on the North Dakota Geological Survey Paleontology Facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/NDGSpaleo/ just scroll down to the October 17, 2019 entires
To make the hoof I would use a two part epoxy putty like Milliput, Aves or the one I use to sculpt my originals Magic Sculpt. Milliput if it is available near you would probably be the most economical since you won't need much. Up here in Canada you can get it at most Hobby shops. It is epoxy based and will stick to pretty much anything. It comes from the UK, if you are in the US and they don't have it I believe you should be able to find Green Stuff it is basically the same but I have never used it. All of these epoxy putties mix together in a 1:1 ratio so you just take a ball or strip of each the same size and kneed them together until uniform then sculpt. I wouldn't make it too thick it looks like it would look like an oversized toenail in real life with a slight convex curve on the outside. There would probably be a bit of a fleshy ridge like your own nails where it grows out from the hand so you could sculpt that as well. You can see that line on the fossil. Once it cures you can paint it with water based acrylic paints that you can get at a craft store or hobby shop. I'll probably do it on my samples when I get them. I'll probably grind out the pocket where the hoof would be and sculpt it in the pocket but if you aren't comfortable with that just sculpt it on top like I described.

Perfect! That'll be the path I'll take, a fun mini-project. Thanks for this direction.

[SidB]

@Faelrin, thank-you for this reminder too. It's useful.
@John, appreciate the word of caution, especially as I'm considering modifying some of my older hadrosaurs also. I'll spend some time in researching the issue across the range of these ornithischians.

[Tyto_Theropod]

To make the hoof I would use a two part epoxy putty like Milliput, Aves or the one I use to sculpt my originals Magic Sculpt. Milliput if it is available near you would probably be the most economical since you won't need much. Up here in Canada you can get it at most Hobby shops. It is epoxy based and will stick to pretty much anything. It comes from the UK, if you are in the US and they don't have it I believe you should be able to find Green Stuff it is basically the same but I have never used it. All of these epoxy putties mix together in a 1:1 ratio so you just take a ball or strip of each the same size and kneed them together until uniform then sculpt. I wouldn't make it too thick it looks like it would look like an oversized toenail in real life with a slight convex curve on the outside. There would probably be a bit of a fleshy ridge like your own nails where it grows out from the hand so you could sculpt that as well. You can see that line on the fossil. Once it cures you can paint it with water based acrylic paints that you can get at a craft store or hobby shop. I'll probably do it on my samples when I get them. I'll probably grind out the pocket where the hoof would be and sculpt it in the pocket but if you aren't comfortable with that just sculpt it on top like I described.

This is all good advice.  As someone who's used both, I'd just like to add that in my experience Green Stuff has a slightly tackier consistency, while Milliput is more like clay.  I personally find the latter easier to sculpt but also easier to accidentally muck up before it's fully hardened!   Thought this observation might help decide things for people who have both available to them.

This might be a bit late in the day and I'm by no means an expert, but I do have something to add on the subject of Spinosaurus integument.  As far as I can see, no one has mentioned hydrodynamics and drag reduction, which I would have thought would be pretty important for an animal that was at the very least amphibious.  It would be all the more important if @stargatedalek is right about them spending any amount of time in the open ocean (which is a valid theory, but I'd like to see a citation if possible).  Regardless, most animals that spend any length of time in water have integument that doesn't impede their swimming and, in the case of amphibious animals, integument that dries off quickly so that a) they don't loose too much heat and b) their movement on land isn't impeded by a waterlogged 'coat'.
From that point of view, I'd argue that any feathers or feather-like structures Spinosaurus might have would be relatively simple, low profile and waterproof, possibly resembling the plumage of modern theropods best adapted for life in the water: penguins.

Another interesting possibility is a Spinosaurus with bare skin like a whale or dolphin, or only very sparse integument like a hippo (the latter might actually be a pretty good Spinosaur analogue, albeit a mammalian one).  It would certainly make sense in light of Mark Witton's thought-provoking blog. 

None of this is a nag to Doug - his Spinosaurus is both aesthetically pleasing and valid reconstruction just as it is.

[Doug Watson]

To make the hoof I would use a two part epoxy putty like Milliput, Aves or the one I use to sculpt my originals Magic Sculpt. Milliput if it is available near you would probably be the most economical since you won't need much. Up here in Canada you can get it at most Hobby shops. It is epoxy based and will stick to pretty much anything. It comes from the UK, if you are in the US and they don't have it I believe you should be able to find Green Stuff it is basically the same but I have never used it. All of these epoxy putties mix together in a 1:1 ratio so you just take a ball or strip of each the same size and kneed them together until uniform then sculpt. I wouldn't make it too thick it looks like it would look like an oversized toenail in real life with a slight convex curve on the outside. There would probably be a bit of a fleshy ridge like your own nails where it grows out from the hand so you could sculpt that as well. You can see that line on the fossil. Once it cures you can paint it with water based acrylic paints that you can get at a craft store or hobby shop. I'll probably do it on my samples when I get them. I'll probably grind out the pocket where the hoof would be and sculpt it in the pocket but if you aren't comfortable with that just sculpt it on top like I described.

This is all good advice.  As someone who's used both, I'd just like to add that in my experience Green Stuff has a slightly tackier consistency, while Milliput is more like clay.  I personally find the latter easier to sculpt but also easier to accidentally muck up before it's fully hardened!   Thought this observation might help decide things for people who have both available to them.

None of this is a nag to Doug - his Spinosaurus is both aesthetically pleasing and valid reconstruction just as it is.

@Tyto_Theropod that's good to know about the Green Stuff as I said I have never used it, that is the same reason I prefer Magic Sculpt over Aves Apoxie. I find Aves also has a sticky consistency that I don't like. I use water to smooth the Magic Sculpt and it doesn't work as well on Aves. S @SidB I just remembered another epoxy putty that you can get in smaller amounts, its A+B Epoxy Putty and comes in two sticks and mixes 1:1. It was very popular at Paleo Divison at the museum when I worked there in the 80s. From what I remember it was not sticky and worked like clay, its available here and is also available in the USA, sorry I do not know where you reside.

As for the integument of Spinosaurus the reason I went for a scaly approach was in my opinion in the other well documented case of convergent evolution that we have with the crocodilians the also semi aquatic Phytosaurs also have a very tough scaly skin. I think it makes sense for a large and heavy semi aquatic animal that has to drag itself in and out of water over possibly rough terrain to have a tough and cut resistant outer layer, the much more aquatically evolved crocodilians have been around for millions of years and haven't seen the need to evolve a smoother more hydrodynamic outer layer. As I said in the case of crocodilians and phytosaurs that is not what we see plus their tougher outer layer would have provided predator protection as well as against injury from conflict between other members of their species for mating etc. As for a hippo it does not have to drag its underbelly over the ground. Also when I was doing my research I too never found any reference to Spinosaurus spending time in the open ocean but I could have missed something.

[Tyto_Theropod]

@Tyto_Theropod that's good to know about the Green Stuff as I said I have never used it, that is the same reason I prefer Magic Sculpt over Aves Apoxie. I find Aves also has a sticky consistency that I don't like. I use water to smooth the Magic Sculpt and it doesn't work as well on Aves. S @SidB I just remembered another epoxy putty that you can get in smaller amounts, its A+B Epoxy Putty and comes in two sticks and mixes 1:1. It was very popular at Paleo Divison at the museum when I worked there in the 80s. From what I remember it was not sticky and worked like clay, its available here and is also available in the USA, sorry I do not know where you reside.

As for the integument of Spinosaurus the reason I went for a scaly approach was in my opinion in the other well documented case of convergent evolution that we have with the crocodilians the also semi aquatic Phytosaurs also have a very tough scaly skin. I think it makes sense for a large and heavy semi aquatic animal that has to drag itself in and out of water over possibly rough terrain to have a tough and cut resistant outer layer, the much more aquatically evolved crocodilians have been around for millions of years and haven't seen the need to evolve a smoother more hydrodynamic outer layer. As I said in the case of crocodilians and phytosaurs that is not what we see plus their tougher outer layer would have provided predator protection as well as against injury from conflict between other members of their species for mating etc. As for a hippo it does not have to drag its underbelly over the ground. Also when I was doing my research I too never found any reference to Spinosaurus spending time in the open ocean but I could have missed something.

Interesting - I also use water to smooth Milliput, as well as to make it more pliable and to stop it sticking to my hands as much.

It's really insightful to here about how you come to your decisions when reconstructing dinosaurs, and makes your contributions to the Safari line all the more of a pleasure to own knowing that real research and thought went into them.  I can definitely get behind your argument from a scaled Spinosaurus - it's always the image I've had, and I didn't really mention it in my post because I assumed it would be the same for most people and was trying to think out how plausible alternatives would be.  And of course, there's no rule saying that an animal has to have just the one kind of integument.  You could plausibly have a Spinosaurus with mostly scales, but a few small quills or filaments peeking out between them on its dorsal surface or enhancing the sail.  Of course, this is speculative detail and it wouldn't be practical to model it on a toy.  All in all, as I said I'm in favour of your approach and all this isn't intended as a critique of the particular figure you sculpted - just an interesting train of thought and possibly something that future sculptors can consider.

[SidB]

@DougWatson, I noted your comments concerning the multi-ton Spinosaur dragging itself out of water over rocky beaches and shorelines. We don't all get to enjoy the sandy verges of resorts, do we? The heavy integument makes a great deal of sense, especially on the ventral surfaces. Then, the journey was likely to be fraught with danger from tooth and claw, when undertaken for mating purposes (nature red in tooth and claw), so a well-protected dorsal aspect also fits.

P.S.  Thanks for the additional advise on the Edmontosaurus. BTW, I also live in the "Great White North."

[Doug Watson]

@DougWatson, I noted your comments concerning the multi-ton Spinosaur dragging itself out of water over rocky beaches and shorelines. We don't all get to enjoy the sandy verges of resorts, do we? The heavy integument makes a great deal of sense, especially on the ventral surfaces. Then, the journey was likely to be fraught with danger from tooth and claw, when undertaken for mating purposes (nature red in tooth and claw), so a well-protected dorsal aspect also fits.

P.S.  Thanks for the additional advise on the Edmontosaurus. BTW, I also live in the "Great White North."

Well good day eh!

[Dinoguy2]

Anyone else get a notification that the Qianzousaurus is in stock only to find it's not available yet? Hoping it comes in soon, I'm waiting to place a single order to save on shipping, already missed out on the Holiday sale... 😒

[Shonisaurus]

The qianzousaurus of Safari is not yet stock but the concavenator finally appears that it is not in stock but at least gradually complete the sale of 2020 dinosaurs by Safari passed the link,

https://store.safariltd.com/collections/whats-new/release-year_2020+interest_prehistoric

[Dinoxels]

I got an email today saying the Qui was in stock, but no....

[Stuckasaurus (Dino Dad Reviews)]

The qianzousaurus of Safari is not yet stock but the concavenator finally appears that it is not in stock but at least gradually complete the sale of 2020 dinosaurs by Safari passed the link,

https://store.safariltd.com/collections/whats-new/release-year_2020+interest_prehistoric

Nice! About time.

[Shonisaurus]

I hope urzeitshop.de has those figures soon. Mirón told me that due to Hong Kong indidents in China, the arrival of Safari dinosaurs would take a little longer than expected.

[Daspletodave]

The Edmontosaurus is perfect as is!

[Faelrin]

@Doug Watson Thank you for sharing about why you chose to sculpt your Spinosaurus in this way. It has certainly helped to give me another outlook on this in ways I was not considering, and perhaps I'll be more open minded to crocodilian like integument on reconstructions of these animals in the future, if/until any fossils surface and show otherwise.

In any case I am sincerely hoping you will sculpt both a Baryonyx and a Utahraptor at some point to finish off both of the famous trio's of spinosaurids and dromaeosaurids, since you have certainly delivered with the others.

[Halichoeres]

For the benefit of those who don't visit collection threads:



These guys look great.

[Sim]

I think I saw that photo in your collection's thread.  It's a nice photo.  I'm really looking forward to Everything Dinosaur getting the Dilophosaurus and Deinonychus!  It's difficult to wait, but I have to.

[Stuckasaurus (Dino Dad Reviews)]

For the benefit of those who don't visit collection threads:

These guys look great.

I'm salivating

[Andreioli]

Safari 2020 figures available in Germany !

https://www.spielzeug-guenstig.de/s01.php?shopid=s01&cur=eur&sp=en&ag=1&pp=sucheazu&offset=0&zu=76&sev=1&lim=120

[Shonisaurus]

I hope Miron from urzeitshop sells those figures soon. The urzeitshop store is very economical and I am sincerely interested in these figures in general terms, even if it means a bit of economic sacrifice.

[Killekor]

Yesterday I was scrolling in the internet searching information for my review of the Schleich Dracorex, when I found this drawing:

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pachycephalosaurus.png#mw-jump-to-license

It is just me or it's color scheme is similar to the new Safari model?

Killekor